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carbon farm

I spent allot of time on this station from running my old mans tucker bus on the finke river to fencing yard building mustering and the like, and to keep in oldholden i know of about 20 ht hg hks laying about............but a carbon farm.....wtf??????
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[http://www.beefcentr...|carbon farm]

pro 4 nuclear plants hidden in the 3000 square klm land in another 10 years time....

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sounds like a waste of tax payers money
and a load of bullcrap from academic wankers

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β€œYou'd better send a meat truck. Charlie's copped a saucepan in the throat.”

This is part of the whole carbon trading b*ll[Naughty Pottyword]. Why not just fix the pollution problems rather than plant a tree to offset them? ( trees are cheaper, that's why)
The Government ( read: Greens, vegan, non-meat eating, tree hugging, meat industry hating, w*nkers) hope that turning cattle farms into carbon banks like this will be more profitable than raising beef cattle and it will encourage farmers to give up cattle production.
They Greens believe that the workers on cattle farms will find new work in the massive new industry of rural carbon trading. (BS)
I see it this way: in the short time it might work as the carbon farms will be profitable.
In the longer term, as more farmers move into carbon farming, the carbon price will falter as more tradable credits become available and the industry may well collapse( remember deer farms, ostrich farms, alpaca farms etc?)
The price of meat will go up due to a shortage of supply because there will be less suppliers. Out export trade will fall becuase of less supply and those higher prices.
Meat will then become more profitable because of the higher prices encouraging some farmers back into meat production, changing back from carbon trading, if they are allowed. This farm in NT will be locked up forever.
As we eat less meat, we will need more farmland to produce more vegetables to grow the protein crops needed to meet the larger demand. Perhaps we could clear some more forests???
It's cr*p. The Greens will only hurt our country, our trade and out people to suit their own mislead ideological beliefs.
David

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Old is good.

agree with that.

mmmm think I'll keep my little Damara/Dorper sheep herd going.

the whole carbon thing is a load of crap, just a clever money spinner for the government.
if they really cared why doesnt EVERY Public Housing/Commision House have solar panels (& a Hydro Gas hot water system?)
ahhhh thats right for individuals to create solar power, means electricity companies make less profit & government gets less tax revenue!

scam , scam , scam!

we are now being ripped off with our (Solar) Smart Meter / Bi-Directional meter, company says consumers cant read their own smart meters , as it will NEVER match your Bills WTF?

I read our Meters Registers (Peak, Off Peak, Hot water & Solar) at same time meter man does with his Probe thingo???? & it used to correlate until last October when they had a "probe read error" excuse was they werent charging for Hot Water register.....

now they also say that they get a reading at the end every half hour, so why didnt they have the HW register details???

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What's wrong with having a vegetarian or even vegan diet?

HKing - omnivore.

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

nothing wrong with that at all!
I dont eat red meat or pork, & only began eating chicken 2 years ago.
my sheep are currently only sold to hobby farmers.

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Ask any kid. I'm sure they'll tell you what's wrong with a vegetarian diet.
Seriously though, I respect the right of people to eat a vegan/vegetarian diet. I just wish they'd respect my right to eat something that moos or baas.
If we all stooped eating meat we would all need many, many more vegetables to replace the protein and minerals we get from meat. We would need more farmland, where would it come from? Perhaps we could clear some forests or plough in some ethanol crops?
Until that extra farmland was found there would be a shortage, which would push vegetable prices up.
David

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Old is good.

The average Australian diet could well do with not only a reduction in salt, sugar and fats of the nasty saturated variety. It would benefit from a big cut in red meat consumption. That's why SO many Australians are very much below the healthy average for dietary balance, intestinal health, obesity and heart disease. We eat an unnecessarily and abnormally large amount of the stuff.

It's even worse for those who live in the bush. It's not just depression that these folk struggle with more than urban folk, it's the nasty health conditions aformentioned.

Re. your own diet David, is it really THAT bad? Have you really felt that victimised, marginalised, harshly judged or disrespected for simply having some meat in your diet?

Almost every single vegetarian person I've ever met in 3 or so decades has never had a go at me or any other meat consuming person.

If we're talking about purely theoretical ideals, like if everybody stooped eating meat, a massive amount of previously arable land would actually become available.

As far as I'm aware, some of those moo-ing creatures, and a lot of those that baa, damage grasses much more than mere 'roos. They nip more of it off close to the ground or tear it up altogether, because they have been bred to digest the roots. Also, their harder hooves mulitiply that damage on the remaining grass. Loss of native plants and grasses ALWAYS leads to loss of topsoil. THAT issue is the 'elephant in the room' of farm land degradation - and has been a significant problem for decades! Now, imagine slowly reverse that scenario...

HKing - big picturing.

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

I prefer to eat either sitting or standing up. I find I lose too much off my plate when I stoop to eat... :)

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Cheers...Dave

"Search more, Post less"

>E-mail Me
Qute's Shed

Pictures speak louder than words.

http://www.shortarmg...

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Cheers,
John.

Oh, you're so funny, Dave! You could perform at the 'Sit-Down Comedy Club' over here in Brisvale.

Me? Stooping?
A successful communication strategy is to mimic some of the mannerisms &/or vocab of the other person. I decided to employ a bit of that our curmudgeonly, Old-but-good David. I'll stoop that as of now.

HKing - chicken, crossing road.

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Yeah, right! :)

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Cheers...Dave

"Search more, Post less"

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Qute's Shed

Don't we also have massive acid-sulphate problems because of water table degradation from all the water we pull out of our wells and rivers for irrigation?
Wherever we produce our food we cause problems.
If we have to grow more crops because we aren't eating beef we will damage more land.
Perhaps we could import all our food. It would solve all of Australia's land degradation problems.
The carbon footprint of that imported food might be a problem, but we could offset it with the lovely, huggable trees growing on all that unused farmland.
David
Global warming non-believer. ( Except after ice ages, I wonder what warmed the planet then? It certainly wasn't us.)

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Old is good.

Cropping that doesn't require as much water is part of the informed answer. So is the broader application of the irrigation (& soil degradation) land management strategies, that are ALREADY practised by progressive farmers. Leaving MORE larger and hardy trees on both cropping and cattle sheep property actually conserves soil quality.

It's the UNNATURAL ACCELERATION of climate change (which includes warming) which is the issue. Blind Freddie knows that the climate has always been in a constant and GRADUAL state of flux.

I thought all even partly informed folk were aware of, and agreed that...!

HKing - non-denier.

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

If God didn't want us to eat animals He wouldn't have made them out of meat.

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You seem to know her well, Stan.

I s'pose we could all eat chicken sausage, pies, hotdogs, or even just regular sausages. God knows there's little or no real meat in any of them!

HKing - 85 filler, thickener, cereal, salt, water, flavouring and a little bit of hoof & bone meal.

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

What do you mean "her", Michael? I hereby give you the ULTIMATE proof that God cannot be female....

Just look up into the night sky... The stars haven't been rearranged for billions of years.... :)

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Cheers...Dave

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Qute's Shed

for the cockie animal raring is better cost to profit ratio than dry land cropping.
over grazing is a pasture management issue would happen with any animal
after all its the soil that is the cockies tool of trade

farmers get picked on a lot by city people but how many other people work 16 hour days not knowing if they will get payed

there should be a food strike to show how important Aussie farming is
may be people would wake up when they go hungry for a couple of days

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β€œYou'd better send a meat truck. Charlie's copped a saucepan in the throat.”

I do not believe there is anything wrong with more trees. I don't feel the urge to hug one but they were around a longtime before us and do useful things like hold top soil/reduce erosion and regulate the water table. Also that magic trick of absorbing CO2.

Did our early relatives have to cut every single one down? Maybe they thought a massive redgum grew to maturity in 2 years. Doubt that though.

I consider my self to be a "greenie" but believe the only solution to our current CO2 situation is to go nuclear.

Although, I cannot understand why geo-thermal is not high on people's list of alternative energies? Geo solves that age-old problem that you cannot store vast amounts of electricity without a mountain of batteries (too many to even be feasible).

So I will never be accepted by the ( read: Greens, vegan, non-meat eating, tree hugging, meat industry hating, w*nkers).

I would just like to point out that you cannot pigeon-hole everyone who believes in conservation.

I have studied in a large 1800MW brown coal-fired power station and that is the problem with many "greenies". They haven't. They do not get the concept of base load power and just how much alternative energy that that would require. Jeez, just look at a desalination plant or aluminium smelter and observe how much juice they they pull.

The fact that the station I was in was overall 20% efficient-speaks volumes. The technology has not evolved because it cannot. But coal is cheap and easy to open-cut mine. No matter what dodgy carbon scheme they come up with, these sorts of stations are going to pump out tremendous amounts of CO2, NOX and SOX.

On omnivores v's vego's and vegans...

I love steak but try not to eat it more than once a month. I totally agree with HKing that we eat way too much read meat.

I have been told this by several of my asian friends who come from countries where the average life expectancy is very high compared to many "developed" nations.

On farming...

Having watched a close friend of mine endure a 13 year drought, I am under no illusion how hard farming is. It makes you want to eat more beef/lamb to support people like him.

Many people do not give a second thought about the produce they buy at the supermarket. They expect ALL (i.e summer veggies in July) types of produce to be available at any time of the year. Instead of accepting what is in season naturally. This is what pressures farmers to use things like flood irrigation, obscene amounts of super phosphate and outdated open irrigation channels.

Carbon trading is just moving deck chairs around on that well-known ship.

Tim.

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Current cars: HJ factory V8 m21 panelvan. No rust, windowless, original paint. Straight as a die.
HR Panelvan. Original paint. Very straight, windowless, 5sp 186s. Hardly any rust.

Agree.

"Why bother spending a heap of money and developing new technologies when you can just dig dirty coal out of the ground and sell it to China ?" say the short sighted and greedy resources companies.

We should be investing in nuclear.

Modern reactor designs are effectively foolproof (The Japanese reactors are 30 year old designs)

We can situate them in extremely tectonically stable areas (The Japanese reactors are near fault lines and the coast) miles away from anyone. Waste products get transported inland to a huge hole in the ground...reprocess and dump.

We sit on something like 60% of the worlds uranium resources.

Bang a heap of reactors out near Broken Hill or somewhere......pipe the power into a national grid....use it to crack water and thus fuel a hydrogen economy and also just to power things directly or via batteries. And as an extra bonus we sneak some fuel out of a breeder reactor..oh..sorry...."dual purposed facility" and quietly run up a few multi-megaton nukes for any of our oh so friendly and wonderful over populated neighbours to find out all about if they try anything stupid.

WIN - WIN !

Of course, all the hippies and tree huggers will come out and ruin the whole deal.

They make me sick.........

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Nope, not the right material.
Research Thorium, ZERO chance of a melt down
4 points from wiki:
Weapons-grade fissionable material (233U) is harder to retrieve safely and clandestinely from a thorium reactor;
Thorium produces 10 to 10,000 times less long-lived radioactive waste;
Thorium comes out of the ground as a 100% pure, usable isotope, which does not require enrichment, whereas natural uranium contains only 0.7% fissionable U-235;
Thorium cannot sustain a nuclear chain reaction without priming, so fission stops by default.

It can also burn nuclear waste and from memory, delivers the same amount of energy per tonne, as 300 tonnes of uranium, and millions of tonnes of coal.

The trouble currently, is the cost, but a smart man, ney a smart country, would invest in this technology, no wait, India already is, perhaps we have missed the boat, given that along with the USA, we have the largest deposits available in the world

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Cheers
John
:o)

Dislike me for who I am you may, like me for whom I'm not, you never will...
MY SHED

Thorium = Nuclear.

Nuclear means "from the nucleus" or basically energy as the result of fission of unstable atoms, it's only the choice of unstable atom to use that differs.

And yes, the latest designs are pretty well foolproof, for instance Pebble reactors.

Of course, the same hippy loser crown who complain about "radiashuns" going into your dinner when it's heated in the microwave will be out in force against it.

Losers.......hanging is too good for them.

mwahahhaaaaaaaaaaa....................

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"mwahahhaaaaaaaaaaa"

Is that the sound of a chainsaw being ironically used to cut down a greenie?

Hang on... I'm a greenie!

HGreen.

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

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Cheers
John
:o)

Dislike me for who I am you may, like me for whom I'm not, you never will...
MY SHED

You have to ask yourself why p*ssant little countries like Armenia and Romania have reactors and we don't ?....Well, except for Lucas Heights which is a tiny little thing mainly used for radionucleotide production anyway.

It's a disgrace !

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as i understand it we are expected to make sacrifices to enable things to be easier for our grandchildren, meaning we have to do without or it costs us more.
i don't have any grandchildren and am not likely to have any, why should i have to make sacrifices for other peoples grandchildren?
like the south american dictator said, why should i care about posterity, what has posterity ever done for me?

johnperth

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Hmmm, that's not a selfish stance, now is it.

HKing - me, me, me, me, me, me, me!

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

I don't even have any kids, but I care enough to WANT to pay more to help stave off catastrophe, note, It will happen, there is no denying the incessant greed of humanity that will inevitably rape the earth for the need of growth and PROFIT. I'm trying to do my bit, my cars run on LPG, I've replaced my TV's with LED 6 star rated ones, I turn sh!t off when I can, I don't complain, there's no sense in that.
If one person or another thinks that we will would be better off under one government or another, think again. Both parties have signed off on the SAME reduction targets, to acheive the SAME goals, one way forces those that pollute to pay, the alternative pays them not to, which we pay for either way, at least with the current plan, the government gives some of it back to most poeple, the other plan doesn't, I can't comment for anyone else, but I know which plan I would prefer...

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Cheers
John
:o)

Dislike me for who I am you may, like me for whom I'm not, you never will...
MY SHED

One could argue the energy consumed to produce them new TV's is greater than the energy difference during lifetime of use between the old and new... I'm not one to talk, I like having new TV's too :D

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Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

But the LED's use only 77 Watts, vs the old plasma at around 900 Watts, somehow I think they won't.
:o)

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Cheers
John
:o)

Dislike me for who I am you may, like me for whom I'm not, you never will...
MY SHED

hking..so nobody else looks after themselves, preferably without hurting others, but if not who will? what's selfish about it?
in 20 years time these grandchildren will be whinging about paying taxes to keep pensioners in their abject poverty.

johnperth

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Just because you suggested that only YOU is important to you, doesn't mean I was suggesting the extreme opposite.

So, no, you don't need to be ENTIRELY selfless. A responsible, progressive society achieve more when its members consider both themselves AND others, co-operatively.

Acting selfishly may be increasingly common, but it doesn't make it GOOD for our communities or wider society. In fact it just makes things worse, bit by bit. Nice!

My son, and myself to a much lesser degree, live a secure lifestyle. However, I make sacrifices (and wish to make many more) for others who I don't know, and those in the future who will be subject to the results of my generation's decisions/actions.

HKing - of the 'woods.

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Its all so very simple. If they can measure it they can regulate it - then they can tax it. Up until recently they had no real way of measuring pollution. I still don't think they have it 100% now - but with some fancy wordsmiths working alongside boffins and regulatory authorities its not so difficult for them.

It all starts with some green good intentions to make the world a better place. It becomes trendy and more get on board. It starts to become a lifestyle when its rammed right down your throat and any one that begs to differ, question their intentions is outcast as evil.

Now they think they can measure carbon outputs. Its odd - trees need carbon - we need trees - but hey lets tax it anyhow.
How many here recall saying they would tax the air we breathe if they could figure out how. Yep now they can.

Just remember the activity of one volcano will wipe out in just one day every effort every human has made to fight carbon out puts for the last five years!
Given there are dozens of volcanoes around the world active at anyone time - you start to get a sense of the futility of it all. That's not to say we should just give up and pollute at will. Its just the balance is out of whack. So do countries with natural disasters like fire and volcanoes etc have to be penalised? No of course not that wouldn't be fair or equitable. But if you burn some fossil fuel to get to work to live - you should be penalised is the Green rational.

How it works is they start to make the individual feel guilty with stuff like 'do your bit'. Don't get fooled- your bit is never ever enough. Short of dropping dead altogether. Even then you will pollute the place with your remains. Yes Funeral homes pay into the carbon tax credits too - and guess who pays for that?

There is so much bureaucratic hypocrisy in the world that is just going to get a whole lot worse. Democracy is now mostly a pipe dream. Nothing is very fair anymore. The best I could do was to move somewhere that has yet to catch up and at least get some short term reprieve from bureaucratic interference in our lives. Its happening here too - but at a much slower pace.

As long as you have a roof over your head, food on your plate and your arse still points to the ground and - then we should be grateful. Of course all that will be taxed of course. What ground your arse is pointing at is about the only difference you can make.

cheers streetneat-Andrew.

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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

You moved there, and NZ already has a carbon tax....?
In relation to our problem here
I'm not troubled by the do your bit slogan, I do do my bit, I know it doesn't matter 1 iota to the whole picture whether I do or don't, nor if the yobbo next to me does either.
I just don't whinge about it.
The only reason I have tried to save energy, is because I know just how much it is going to go up, it has to, if we just continue to use it willy nilly, it will just vanish.
Life is simple, you live you pay taxes, it won't be any different under one government or another, the only difference between them, is what they do with the taxes.
I know which party has been better with spending the money on the right things- health, education, infrastructure, and I know which party has neglected those same issues for around a decade.
Either way as I stated earier, BOTH parties have signed off on the same pollution reduction targets, to be acheived under the SAME timeframe, one party will penalize those who pollute, one will pay them not to, one party is going to give money back to most people from the tax, where as the other party will tax us to pay the polluters.
Which policy would you prefer?
I know which one I would.

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Cheers
John
:o)

Dislike me for who I am you may, like me for whom I'm not, you never will...
MY SHED

Not sure what you mean about your volcano remarks....... volcanic eruptions produce immense amounts of particulates and sulphates which are projected straight into the stratosphere. This produces a net cooling effect......like Mt Pinatubo in the early 90's.

In fact, it would only require a few thousand tons of sulphide to counteract the effect of an entire years CO2 output as sulphides are amazingly effective..... a ton of sulphides can "nullify" many hundreds of thousands of tons of CO2.

Of course, the big danger is that governments will start pouring out CO2 emissions if they think a few sulphide atmospheric sprayers will 'solve' the problem......well, until the sprayers fail for a while, and then we are in the poo bigtime!

The Carbon Tax here is merely a public relations exercise...... completely pointless and doomed to failure in the long term.

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a smallish redistribution of wealth, as I understand.

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She was just a whiskey maker, but I loved her still.

[http://gallery.oldho...|toybox]

Sorry - the username lends itself to butt jokes John ;-)
Yep I moved here- not complaining at all - just the opposite. NZ & OZ have similar policies on many things. The good thing about NZ is its not quite with the times of the rest of the world on some levels. Some would see this as a step backwards. I see it as a short term reprieve until they do catch up. The carbon tax thing is global - not unique to Down under countries like Oz 'n NZ. I think both countries are bringing it on board at the same time.

Im with you on the doing the bit thing. I do my bit and its got stuff all to do with the environment. I just hate wastage on all fronts. If it can be used again then that's great. I love recycling but not in a greenie sense.

The Greens have finally gone from being the cute underdog to an annoying bunch thats hypocritical and gone too far. Like any party - give them power and they just want more. Once upon a time the public embraced the green movement saving stuff-( unless you were employed in anything that harvest natural resources.

Now they don't just target greedy multinationals that rape 'n pillage - they are starting to target the average voter and everyone's becoming more than a little sick of it. Its like Political correctness. Initially a little was good then it just goes too far. (BTW its not PC to call someone a wanker now. Its best referred to as Owner Operator.)

Cheers streetneat Andrew.

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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

If a large company pollutes, the Government taxes them, the company jacks up its prices due to the expense of the tax, the consumer pays more for the service/product, the Government gives the consumer a rebate from the taxes collected, WTF has this achieved other than artificially inflating prices? It has done SFA to reduce the amount of carbon being pushed into the atmosphere and it has not effectively punished the polluters, nor has it given any incentive to them to do business in a "cleaner" manner. If the Government was serious about doing something about global warming rather than just being seen to be doing something, then they would legislate to the effect that of a specific date that anyone not meeting emissions target levels would simply not be allowed to operate in any capacity.This would cause an actual reduction in emissions rather than just have a wad of cash travel around in circles. I personally think the whole debate is bullsh!t, the "scientific records" that "global warming is based on are only from the last 100 years or so, when taken in context with the age of the planet and the changes in climate that have occured over millions of years is akin to telling the average temperature of the year because you opened the window for a couple of milliseconds.

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Cheers
Dick Lang Still ignoring Stan Still.

HQ Ute, HQ Prem Wagon, HX Sandman Ute, HZ Ute, VE Lumina Sedan.
Wanted "Lanjen" Holden Service Tools and "Lanspeed" Early Holden Accessories

The government is going down the carbon price road because they believe it is cheaper for big business rather than seriously looking at solving the problem.
The government also know it won't overly hurt business because they know business can pass the costs on to consumers in the form of higher prices.
The government also probably knows that those higher prices will be a GST windfall.
Don't think we will do any better under the other mob. Their idea won't raise prices because they intend to subsidise (pay) industry to lessen pollution. That money will have to either come from the budget ( read schools, hospitals, roads, infrastructure) or the suckers ( read us taxpayers). My money is on it coming from us, so we lose. No matter who is running the show.
I will agree that we need to clean up our world, I don't believe in global warming.
Remember the hole in the ozone layer? Wasn't that going "man-made" disaster going to be the end of us all, too?
David

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Old is good.

Completely incorrect.

The debate is NOT about the reality of a recent warming event, it's whether 1: The event is transitory or part of a longer term trend.....or 2: If it's "natural" or anthropomorphic.

While we are looking at a very small window right now, the historical data firms the picture up somewhat.

The main problem is, the politicians (who are generally lawyers, thus retarded and skillful liars) are treating this as a vehicle for their own purposes.

There is a frenzy about carbon" this and "carbon" that right now......and they are completely sidestepping the fact that water vapour is some orders of magnitude more effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas.

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Everyone has missed the bigger picture here. What we really need is a sun tax.
The sun is going to die in approx 7 billion years. That will result in the end of life full stop. We need this tax now as we need to work out a way to get more fuel to the sun or our arses pointing to the ground of another planet in another solar system.
I'm sure you will agree doing either of these solutions won't be easy so we need to start yesterday.
Now, I hope no one from the government reads this forum and steals my idea. I reckon Julia would have a better chance selling that one.
For the record I think the human induced climate change debate is bs and if indeed the planet is warming there is not a damn thing we can do about it, until the sun starts cooling of course!

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What about running electrical wires into jam jars full of salty water ????? That's a sure fire fix for everything !

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Where did those whack jobs disappear to?
I miss them guys.

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Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

More like post-modern rebels!

"My mate's (jam jar 'equipped') pan-tech uses less juice now than it used to." (he of course didn't have figures worth a damn).

HKing - hydrogen boosted.

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Go back and read some of the threads and the outrageous stuff people posted.

A dude I was holidaying with was trying to sell some magic food shake potions. He used to sell Amway. Enough said.

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Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

- just the marketing techniques :-)

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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

Yeah...well..... I notice they've all shut up now......

I do seem to remember being howled down though when I simply pointed out how full of sh&t they all were, mostly through ignorance, but still......

Just a point to remember, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck.....it's probably a duck.

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Or possibly an Emu in a duck suit.

Phil

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Phil
2570

Since when did naturally occuring gases become classed as 'Pollution'.

Pollution typically involves waste products that are not naturally occurring. And I say 'typically' not absolutely.

Water vapour is a stronger greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. Why do the screaming greenies not complain about that? That was one of the glaring questions that was never answered when I did my science degree 10 years ago.

Great discussion, it's so long I don't have time to read it all right now.

Short points:
* Nuclear good
* Thorium nuclear better
* Natural gases good.
* Unnatural compounds released to natural environments bad.
* The world has been warmer than today with much the same species, i.e. within the same ecological and geological timeframes. The polar bears and coral reefs did not die off then. And they won't die now.
* Geologists and paleontologists call a much warmer period in the past, the Holocene, the Holocene Climate Optimum.
* We are cooler today than the climate optimum. Just ask the people of Greenland.

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Long time looker, first time owner.
(1979 HZ)

Some clown posted this earlier in this thread.
Now normally I pay no attention to this particular member, but on this single occasion he/she has made a relevant point:

"It's the UNNATURAL ACCELERATION of climate change (which includes warming) which is the issue. Blind Freddie knows that the climate has always been in a constant and GRADUAL state of flux.

I thought all even partly informed folk were aware of, and agreed that...!"

Seems that the temps around the world have gone up and down for ages. Problem is, human activity (be it pollution or excess consumption and release of carbon dioxide) really speeds up a change, human society is going to be knocked around faster than we can naturally adapt. We can't just wander off to fertile feeding grounds a few thousand km away, like some herds of gazelle or mammoths..! Farmland and cities built on river deltas don't fold up and fit in the back of a fuel guzzling 'softroader' very easily.

Does that make sense, ST?

HKing - riding on the back of performing mastodon.

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

I"m confused, are you quoting your own earlier post and calling yourself a clown ? Or am I missing something here ?

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Yes, yes, yes & possibly.

HKidding around.

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'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Also, on a related point...the real problem of rapid climate change ( assuming no Hollywood style Ice Age scenarios) is the effects it's going to have on food production.

Imagine 200 million Indonesians that have lost half their arable land mass, and 80% of their food growing capacity.......... or a billion Chinese, or 500 million Indians all now starving.

WW3 will start over potable water and arable land.

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It's called the climatic optimum because plant life, in that warmer environment, is more productive. Not less. More flora means more fauna.

Climatic changes do not not cause deforestation and desertification, which seems to be what you seem to worry about in this commen? The causes of deforestation are just as complex as the climate.

Yes, humans are adding to the effects of desertification. Dirt poor Africans with massive flocks of goats and herds of camels eating fauna faster than it can naturally regenerate is what is causing the Sahara Desert to spread. Not factories and Americans driving Ford F-150's on the other side of the world.

Anyway, do you want me to go on to how every time someone objective and not biased looks into the published works of Algore and the IPCC, they discover that the models (not science) used to determine climatic warming have set rigid and complex assumptions involved that do not always mirror actual conditions.

The proponents of disastrous climate change are often so unscientific in their arguments that is is laughable.

I recently saw a letter in a newspaper that criticised objective sceptics by saying (and I paraphase): "If carbon dioxide is so harmless and natural, why don't you deniers live in a sealed room full of it and see how long you live." They were saying this like it made all the scientific sense in the world. Well, thank you Emeritus Professor. What a completely bogus argument. May I suggest that if I choose to do that, the warming faithful try to live in a sealed room full of, oh I don't know, something harmless and natural like....water...? and see how long one lives. Even if you live in a room full of harmless and natural pure oxygen, yeah see how long you can remain conscious and alive then too. Completely bogus arguments.

It's the false science that galls me. Using supposition and mere observations as "proof".

"Farmland and cities built on river deltas don't fold up and fit in the back of a fuel guzzling 'softroader' very easily." It would be really good if you spoke to a geologist, a soil scientist, a geographer, a hydrographer, a paleontologist, and see if any of them will agree that river deltas remain static in place. They do not. They move. They change. Rivers change course. Storms erode banks. Sand-dunes naturally traverse the land, pushed by the wind or waves. Rocks weather. Rivers carry sediment that is deposited somewhere along the river route. It's entirely our own fault if we fail to see that we live in dynamic environments that change. When peoples' seafront homes wash away and they are build on sand, don't complain to the council and ask for compo, its' your own fault for living there.

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Long time looker, first time owner.
(1979 HZ)

i hear Julia is waxing lyrical on spending on geothermal energy....

well get this.. 100 million dollars (govt and private) has been spent on "trying" to tap austs geothermal energy and not 1 watt of power has resulted.

its a total cluster f&*(k and they are all back at first base... works good in canada as the temp diff (water at 30 degrees, outside at - 40 degrees)can produce power.

in aus, we have to drill to 5 Km to get + 80 degree water to give us the temp differential. does that cost money and sh%%t itself every five minutes? --- hell yeah

it will be 20 years before that chestnut delivers.

brown coal 5c per kW--- solar / wind - geothermal 15c Kw

what does that say??

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After 4 years ... it runs..Yeah!

Generating electricity in the desert is economically suicide.

The transmission of electricity needs to be from a source close to the consumer. That's why we have power stations in the La Trobe valley and NSW Central Coast. Yes, the coal is there, but its' also comparitively close to the consumers of that electricity.

I'm the first to say that I'm no engineer, but I do know that the further the electricity needs to be transmitted, the more is lost and leached out of the cables. To retain it over very long distances is of course possible, but that increases the cost dramatically.

Generating electricity in the desert, 2000km from anything or any major consumer, is not cost effective.

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Long time looker, first time owner.
(1979 HZ)

Spot on Mr Seige. Like beer that is best consumed in the shadow of the brewery it was made in. (Beer doesn't respond well to very much aging or sunlight)
Electricity costs a lot to deliver any great distance. Not that pricing is based on the closer you are the cheaper it is! No...the pricing is based on world pricing - like any energy thats sold. But for the power companies selling this energy, its wise not to have the source too far from the consumer.

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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

I have some questions about this geothermal electricity production, and I may welll be wrong.
Doesn't it work by forcing water under pressure deep underground and recovering it after it has become heated to drive generators? Won't that water expand as it gets hot? Won't that expanded hot water possibly crack the bedrock as it makes it's way the recovery well?
Doesn't coal seam gas recovery work by forcing water (and other chemicals) underground to crack the bedrock so the gas can flow to the recovery well? Isn't coal seam gas recovery the big bogey that will ruin our water tables and make our water flammable?
Following the logic, if geothermal electricity works basically the same way as coal seam gas recovery, won't geothermal electricity damage the water table in our already fragile deserts?
Or, is just that geothermal eclectricity is perceived as green, therefore all is OK, despite the risks to the environment.
David

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Old is good.

Nah, the water or superheated water won't come in contact with the bedrock or anything else down there.... it will be encased in steel casing to keep the water from disappearing into the fractures.

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Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

"(Beer doesn't respond well to very much aging or sunlight)"
I reckon it does. :)
Homebrew is much better the longer you leave it. And I've also left it in the sun to 'age' it a bit quicker, I reckon it works well...

And to make this thread-relevent, I marked Julia's propergander junkmail "return to sender" and stuck it back in the post box.

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........𝓣𝓲𝓢.

βœ„--------------------------------------------------------

-_--_--_ _______._
_--_-_ -/___+__|__\__
.,.,.,,.,|_O ________O_|

i have such a large supply of homebrew that i don't drink anything younger that 1 year old now, lol

commercial beer is different, it don't last much longer that 6 months before it turns crap(er)

Tim we might have to go underground with our brewing too! with all that co2 bubbling out our airlocks we could get taxed

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Shhhh. I won't say anything if you don't.
We'll just make it 'our little secret'...

Actually, this 'global warming' might be helping to save the planet, not destroy it. Because we don't have to use as much electricity to keep our fermemters warm. It's a win-win!
Julia should be paying us.

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........𝓣𝓲𝓢.

βœ„--------------------------------------------------------

-_--_--_ _______._
_--_-_ -/___+__|__\__
.,.,.,,.,|_O ________O_|

I only learnt about beer and its very limited shelf life recently on an excellent weekly NZ TV program called Whats really in our food.
Im sure you can find this via the net on a TV program search - often they put it up on the net if you missed it. Try searching TV 3.
[late edit - here'tis!]

http://www.tv3.co.nz...

Anyhow they showed what happens in the manufacturing process and what happens when beer ages. Unlike wine - it gets much worse when it ages. Home brew is more susceptible as it contains fewer of the things to keep it alive! One thing I did learn is beer in brown bottles lasts a lot longer - sunlight is the big killer of beer. I agree wholeheartedly there- on very sunny days beer dosent last long here either...
Anyhow have a watch of it and tell me you didn't learn something new about beer. I will post the link if I can find it.
Cheers streetneat-Andrew.

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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

Incorrect.

While there are losses of course they can be offset by more capacity and other measures. High voltage DC can traverse up to around 7000km although most runs are a lot shorter.

Take a look at "super grids" "solar updraft towers" and research electricity distribution and you'll see that cost effective and cheap power can be delivered from non population areas quite easily .

Generating electricity in the desert, 2000 km from the nearest city is not only cost effective, but could be extremely profitable.

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Blue with black stripe,

I agree with what you are sayin' but no transition from carbon-based fuels to an alternative is ever going to be cheap.

In the Latrobe Valley we have driven several of our coal stations into the ground because no extremely huge corporation or gaggle of them would invest in a new plant in this current climate. (pun intended)

It takes a LOT of folding stuff and years to build a station and that is even before you see a red cent. I have heard that it takes roughly 10 years before you get a return on your investment. And now they are going to be smacked on the bottie for building something that emits CO2.

Now that aint' gunna suit a baby boomer's share portfolio too well at all.

I am no fan of Julia or any pollie. I believe that politics is "show business for ugly people".

It's just that someone has to bite the bullet-be it geo, nuclear or something realistic replacement.

Ask the owners of the Panama canal how much it cost and does it turn a profit?

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Current cars: HJ factory V8 m21 panelvan. No rust, windowless, original paint. Straight as a die.
HR Panelvan. Original paint. Very straight, windowless, 5sp 186s. Hardly any rust.

the main point of geothermal is that there is a crack that the water can travel through. if there isnt, they make one with a little cracker work.

you can guess the $ cost of that?

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After 4 years ... it runs..Yeah!

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