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HQ Monaro

I have read several different Holden forums and I love the way the so called experts call my car a Kingswood xv4 optioned vehicle. I can't find a Kingswood badge on it anywhere, only two Monaro badges and four GTS badges. It came out of the Holden factory that way so I see it as being a Holden GTS Monaro.
Cheers Davo.

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Kingswood

The thing is Davo that no matter what it's called, it is a Kingswood. Monaro's had/have 2 doors. It was just GMH doing some marketing to move some more cars....

Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

Restored is bored!

IS! Is NOT! IS TOO! No WAY!

I see the Monaro as a coupe -
patently,
clearly,
obviously,
significantly,
distinct from the 4dr sedan.

The name was given to something that immediately gained reknown for NOT being aimed at trundling the family about, as well as it's racing success. This was the car that won the Wheels COTY award too, in part because it was distinct from the 4dr sedans.

Bathurst DID see 4dr Holden action back in the day - but a single, 186S equipped HK Kingswood does NOT a 4 door Monaro legend make!!

70's Holden beancounters saw a chance to make some extra quid, so with a view to using the popularity of the Monaro NAME elsewhere, the SS was created to test the waters. Success let to the GTS4 parts/branding exercise. An afterthought for business reasons, basically.
Buy into the name, even though you're not REALLY getting the legit thing, and certainly NOT a race inspired vehicle.

By this measure, despite the absence of Monaro badge, the HQ 350GTS really IS a Monaro. I believe some were raced (with any success?), which should confirm the notion.

Even though the fantastic series of 3sp 202 Kingswoods has been going for years, it also fails to turn GTS4 V8 models into real Monaros, in my eyes at least.

Nice cars alright, and with an evocative badge attached no doubt, but really lacking in the spirit of what Monaro was.

HKingswood - racer.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

back in ya box

emu is wrong the GTS4 is a monaro, it left the factory with monaro badges so it's a monaro, unlike the GTS350 coupes which had no monaro name plate, but the GTS4 is a option pack on the kingswood sedan, the same way the A9X was a option on toranas & the GT was a option pack on the XY sedan.

Yes the GTS4 was a after thought by GM-H executives, but with out the GTS4 the monaro would of died out as early as 1975.

Kev's Monaro shed

HOLDEN The Great Way to Move

agreed^^

the GTS4 monaro bought the monaro 5 more years, the HJ coupes were a complete flop! the HX LE's were only to clear out the left over shells and bit and pieces

the fact is once the GTS4's came out no one wanted a coupe anymore

i prefer the 4 doors, for me mine is so much more convenient, i don't want the kids jumping over seats, that's just stupid, i want a family car and a monaro at the same time, and my quey does that just nicely

LE left over shells

This is incorrect an LE is NOT an HQ coupe body, or an HJ body.

they are actually HX bodies, as they have different firewall.

If you look closely at an HX LE it does not have a new firewall fitted, it always had an HX firewall.

The same with the HJ, these were also never HQ coupes.

The LE was a way of fare welling the coupe, most of the parts are actually date coded for the LE production time.

As for the use of the code, I do not understand why people use this, no one calls a vacationer an XW4, or a sandman an XX7. Others are sandpipers, ZZZ, delux, SL/E statesman, SL/E wagons, SS Commodores, Acclaim, 25th, 50th and 60th anniversary, SSZ, SVZ, thunder, international, executive (Camira) SLi2000, are all option vehicles. About the only one they do make code reference to is the BT1 National Police pack.

As an option vehicle it is a Monaro, otherwise all of the above would be just the base model, which is NOT how they are referred to. Go into a Holden used car lot and tell the guy the S Commodore up to VZ is just an base Commodore and see how far you get.

LE or not LE?

If not in full, were some of the LE parts remaining older coupe bitss?
I understood that the LE was using up the rear quarter panels (and other coupe bits?) of HQ & HJ origin. The entire body shell, from firewall to beaver panel wasn't originally manufactured in a single piece, was it?

Basically, could the LE shell have been HX firewall, dash, etc, connected to the other, older coupe bits further back?

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

LE dilemma

Firstly, if the LE was assembled up to the firewall (no cowl panel or firewall) and then sat around waiting to get the HJ or HX parts, they would have sat around with no paint. Imagine the condition by the time the time they were used? (cannot be painted as this would restrict the fitment of the firewall and cowl panel as spot welding does not go through paint.)

Holden used just in time processes to assemble cars, so the car came down the line starting in the body assembly plant, then through the paint shop, then to the assembly area. All parts for the car had to arrive that day, so had to be ordered weeks in advance. So if an LE was to come down the line today, a few weeks ago the body plant would be contacted to tell them that yesterday the quarters had to be made, Pilkingtons contacted to deliver the this morning, the engine shop contacted for the engine etc.

Now Pilkingtons did not stock large amounts of "spare" tinted glass in the hope that Holden would use it, the same with the panel press shop etc. They manufactured as required.

the same happens today, imagine that today they built 300 cars, 80 of which were V8s, of those 20 were manual. They would have ordered the right number of engine control units, trans, engines etc to arrive today at the plant, and all these manufacturers would have know what they need to supply. If you were manufacturing the engine computers, you would not just build hundreds of V8 manual computers, you manufacture as ordered.

You might be a few days in advance, but not a week, as you would have to store 1500 computers.

Lets assume for a minute that the panel shop did have 600 1/4 panels sitting around, Holden would not have to turn these into cars, as quarter panels, front guards, bonnets and nose cones are in high demand as spare parts due to most accidents being nose to tail. When the panel shop stops pressing panels, NASCO puts in an order for how many they require for the spare parts industry. They know how long a car is viable to fix under insurance and the number of cars that will be involved in accidents due to historic data. This is why so many HK and HTs are fitted with HG bonnets and guards, which are slightly different to HK and HT. Most HT GTSs have HG GTS bonnets and there are far more HG bonnets on the market than HT even though they made so few HGs to HT GTS.

They even make complete cars as spares, there was a Holden dealer selling a complete HJ coupe shell through the parts and accessory magazine in the 80s, purchased when someone in spare parts would have "sold it at discount" in the early 80s. A lot of Holden dealers would buy these up in the hope to sell them on. Others also purchased large amounts of "overstocked spares". Rares normally does it now, but some might remember Casuala wreckers near Liverpool, they has 5 NOS HK Monaro body shells, plus other HK sedan and wagon shells and plenty of HK to HG NOS seat and door trims. The guy there purchased heaps of stock at auctions. (It is now a housing estate)

The idea that Holden had 600 sets of coupe parts "sitting around" and had to use them is just silly when you really look at it, but this is just another one of those myths that become folk law.

Folklore

Thanks for going into the details about that process.
I reckon I must've heard the stored spares story over a decade ago, and I'm probably not the only one mulling over it now.
Either way, I still think it's a maroon coloured, velour stuffed lump of poo in Holden's product history :-)

HKing - 4dr driver.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

I remember the Monaro shells

I remember the Monaro shells and some two door Torana shells at Casula. They had some amazing stuff there. I also remember complete HR four speed floors, a bus full of EH door shells, crates of EH front crossmember outriggers.
The Monaro and Torana shells weren't worth anything back then and were cut up for rust panels.
There was an auto electrician over the road from the wreckers who had masses of NOS early trim. I rang him up chasing some leather for my EH Premier. He said he only had some grey front seat trims left. He said I could have them for $20 if they were any good to me because he'd never seen grey leather in an EH Prem and he reckoned he'd never sell them. I would have paid a lot more if he'd asked.
When I picked them up I parked my Buller Grey Metallic with grey leather trim Premier as far from his door as I could.
David

Old is good.

pussy farte

all firewalls from hq to wb are the same on the panel between the windscreen an bonnet diiffer from hq to hj hz hx wb but wb hz hj hx are all the same as the fronts are interchangable

[Naughty Pottyword]wit

sometimes when i get petrol

sometimes when i get petrol or something the attendant will say like ,"hey nice kingswood"i have to correct them and point out the four headlights etc,another said what a nice monaro i have???they had no edumacation,,,your another dave with a hq,,,COOL,the hq owning daves list is still growing!

WHAT? no gravy?

It's not a Kingswood

I have the same but opposite problem,

"hey Dave nice Kingswood"

"Thanks but it's not a Kingswood, it's a Belmont"

"what's a Belmont?"

"Doesn't matter, how did you know my name?"

"Just a guess, I thought everyone that owns a HQ was called Dave!"

Cheers
David

aka hq308belmont

www.hq308.com

My Shed

The REAL Question

Yes, everyone who owns an HQ is a Dave in some form or other...

BUT!

Does every Dave own an HQ??????

Cheers...Dave

"Search more, Post less"

E-mail Me
Qute's Shed

xv4

dont worry holden fan i dont call them an xv4 i call them a TAXI lol only joking m8 dont worry what anyone says as long as your happy who cares

Holden the only way to move

agree davo

i had the same Davo, had many discuions-arguments over that the series 1 HQ SS that i had, Was really a trial run to see if a four door monaro would sell

i know its not a monaro as it was based on the belmont with most GTS opitions

in my eyes they are apart of the monaro family, with out the SS there would be no GTS4

old holdens never die,just keep getting stronger

trans am-kingswood rebiuld

Davo...

Great. Another Dave with an HQ. ;)
If it came from the factory with a Monaro badge, surely it's a Monaro?
But I have no real idea.

........Tim.

✄--------------------------------------------------------

-_--_--_ _______._
_--_-_ -/___+__|__\__
.,.,.,.,,.,|_O ________O_|

two way bet tim

your quite right........

Did they make a HZ monaro ??????????

Five GTS badges actually, but

Five GTS badges actually, but who is counting. It left the factory with Monaro badges, it is a Monaro. Simple as that. It is only a name whether 2 doors or 4. HZ was just designated a GTS. My 4 door has 30x trim, and in the parts catalogue it says it's a GTS Monaro.

a proper two door monaro is

a proper two door monaro is pillarless also,,those new ones are not real monaros,they are two door commies with a side window that dosent wind down,,kinda takes away a lot of the attraction.

WHAT? no gravy?

lol

vroooom vrooooom, toot toot, anyone call a cab???

AU

or XY your taxi is here.................

mine is a hx 4 door gts monaro

and i will argue the point as in a hx their was no 2 door monaro only a 4 door gts monaro sedan as the hx le was a hx le coupe and not a monaro if you want to get real technical as holden never called it a monaro

crazywrecker located in werribee vic 3030 wanted old unwanted cars melb call nick 0409308531

4 door gts monaro sedan

Is just a Kingswood with some options?

The HX LE COUPE is plated as a GTS.

I have a HJ premier sedan that was optioned with all the so called GTS bits including the guards But has premier trim and premier steering wheel so does that make it a GTS or not?????????????????????

A Monaro is a coupe. Not a four door sedan, Holden just bent to using the Monaro name on the Kingswood as so many kingwoods where getting most of the Monaro options

What does the tags say. You

What does the tags say. You can call it anything, but if the numbers show it as a premier, that's what it is. Simple

Silly logic

"4 door gts monaro sedan

Is just a Kingswood with some options?"

Using that logic it could be argued that a Monaro coupe "is just a 2 door Kingswood with some options"

What about an LS Monaro is that not a real Monaro because it it's really "just a 2 door Premier"?

Seriously if the badge on the side says it's a Monaro, it's a Monaro.

Cheers
David

aka hq308belmont

www.hq308.com

My Shed

Name equals Sales.

Then again, that entirely depends on whether you equate the significance of options like body stripes and steering wheel, with
1. a 2 door body, and
2. if it was raced.

You couldn't order a 2 door car and tick an option box for 2 more doors (well until the HQ anyway), or a racing history.
Basically,
* Kingswoods were 4 door sedans and never raced.
* Monaros were coupés and were raced.

Out of desire for status we use prestigious names. After 3 or so years of boths models in existence, Kingswood had next to nothing, compared to 'Monaro' - woo hoo!!
Holden knew that and recognised it would shift more product by labelling an optioned-up Kingswood as a Monaro, because the name of that car had previously earnt some status through sporting profile.

The paperwork and little alloy plate just attend to the accounting side of things. Holden was able to show that 'Monaro' was a huge success and a great name in Holden's product line up. Like someone else pointed out, regular humans never go around saying they drive a code number, because it represents diddly squat to the community.

Holden knew that NAMES and IMAGE shift product.

Evidence?

A. Holden cashed in on this by optioning up a panel van and giving it a evocative name? Sales strategy of 'Sandman' is dreamt up. Result: creates extra profile, extra sales. Mission accomplished. Competitors tried to emulate, but Holden blagged this one first and it stuck in people's minds.

B. Toyota knows that the brand/label/name/reputation of 'Landcruiser' means more than ANYTHING to it's Australian market. So what do they do? They use that to give other products some cachet: Landcruiser Prado and even the Rav4 had a 'Cruiser Pack' option.
Anyone with a brain knows it was just a Prado (different body, engines, drivetrain, etc) and a Rav4 (based on a Camry no less!).

Logic tells us that a 4 door sedan isn't really a Monaro, but name, image and status is what sells cars, so Holden attached the badge (and plate and paperwork) to some and charmed us with the name MONARO.

HKing - of product placement.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

HQ Racer

The only HQ raced at Bathurst in production racing was a 4 door Monaro GTS/4, in 73 was a 308, in 74 was a 350.

Car still exists and was featured in AMC a few years ago. It is factory black.

So on your logic, the 4 door is a Monaro the coupe is not.

Racing Kingswood!

Ok. Ta for that.

Obviously, we're talking about more than one track, but if such a car was at Mt Panorama, then it probably cropped up at other tracks occasionally.

I wonder if they would have bought it, much less raced it, if it hadn't been badged Monaro, and only had the Kingswood name attached.

HKingswood - of 2doors.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

HQ race cars

Yes the car ran for two seasons.

HDT ran a V8 Kingswood in rally and other circuit racing, but the first Monaro sedan to be raced was by Evan Green in Rally in April 1973. To the best of my knowledge no HQ coupe was raced in production or rally when new, but plenty of Kingswoods, Belmonts and Monaro sedans were.

In those days the rules that governed each class was different, so sometimes a sedan was a better option. There were lots of odd ball cars raced to fit into different classes, like a number of LC and LJ GTRs (not XU1), An HK Kingswood was at Braced in 1968, 186S 3 speed, it was quite competetive in it class.

Sometimes we focus so much on the top line models that we miss some of the other stuff going on. Like the CDT Gemini team. One of the last "Homologation" specials was the VS SS V6 (yes V six) sedans that fitted into a class for racing. The only reason people raced these was they fitted into a class that suited them.

The same would be the HQ Monaro sedan, it fitted into a class, they got an 8th in class and a DNF at Bathurst, but raced at many other tracks. I do not think they ever got a first in class, but the car is mentioned in a number of motor sport magazines, so must have been competitive.

2 door kingswood

i had this bone head telling me my HQ base model coupe was a kingswood ,,,my theroy is if its got 2 doors and monaro badges its a monaro not a kingswood,some people just dont get it,BTW my name is NOT dave

Taking the "only a coupe is a

Taking the "only a coupe is a real Monaro" arguement to the other extreme are Falcon GT hardtops not a real GT because they made the GT sedan first?
I believe that if it leaves the factory with the name, that's what it is.
I love the HQ Monaro coupe, but if I had to choose I'd take a white four door GTS.
David

Old is good.

Disagree, because....

GT's earnt their stripes through racing success. Both hardtops sedans were raced, so the GT badge logically applies to the vehicles set-up with the exclusively sporty bits that came with the GT badge.

Other Falcon hardtops weren't called GT. They were just hardtops because they weren't sporty.

HKing - XT GT fan.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

spanner in the works

really whats the difference between a two door and a foor door? not much at all mechanically, its just a two door kingswood with go fast bits for looks same as a GTS4

at least now days if you get a HSV you know you are getting real upgrades eg: engine brakes suspenion,of cause you are paying for it though

i think if its plated as a monaro, it is a monaro, same argument can be said about the sandman, its just a van with GTS options but do most people argue they are just a upgraded van no they dont, most accept its a sandman, is a SLR 5000 just a opt up base torana?(i think not) if not then why are the prices so high?

old holdens never die,just keep getting stronger

trans am-kingswood rebiuld

lol

It's obvious from the above who is posting without bias.

You guys are dreaming if you think a 4 door kingswood is a Monaro. Don't give a rats what the badges say. Is a Toyota Lexen a Toyota or is it infact a Holden Commodore?

Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

Restored is bored!

for the die hards

bet most people that argue that a monaro has to be a two door are hk ht hg die hard fans

is a FX a FX? no its not, we just gave it that name and it stuck

old holdens never die,just keep getting stronger

trans am-kingswood rebiuld

Here is some silly logic

Might actually provide clarity for this discussion. lol

http://www.youtube.c...

Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

Restored is bored!

Bravo!

Yes, one of the best moments of South Park - and incredibly relevant to this whole affair.

Don't you go and get all LOGICAL on our collective arse though, with your flippin' Toyota Lexcen angle.

HKing - I hate logic!

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

monaro coupe missing the point

The monaro name was given to the coupe first. Not a 4 door sedan, the trim level is irrelevant. As it is a body type that being a 2 door coupe,

On the release of the HZ the monaro name was dropped buy Holden so in reality the HZ sports version is a GTS NOT a Monaro? And it is based on the premier unlike the HQ HJ HX 4 door monaros which where based on the KINGSWOOD, the SS HQ was based on the BELMONT Sedan,

As for sandman its a sale’s gimmick, put a full instrument dash, a Pontiac sports steering wheel , some Pontiac sports road wheels, fluted guards and a 4 speed box (still with a 6 in it) in a panelvan or a coupe utility and call it some thing special. O hang on some people do call them GTS’s too. Yeah right?

As for the GT wasn’t the first GT a 2 door Cortina in England?

To me the HJ a fully optioned LS monaro coupe is the one I would have if I could.

Wanted information from any one that has any information that has worked in a place that built ambulance's of any type in particular holden hq to wb's and any ambulance builder's paper work or manuals thanks authorised collector of emergency electrical's

Spot on

NM

Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

Restored is bored!

Based on Kingswood?

You are aware that a GTS 4 has Premier door trims, carpet, rear door light switches, power window option, plus many other parts not available on Kingswood.

The HQ Monaro 4 might have been based on a Kingswood, but was almost Premier in trim level.

The HJ to HX was the same as HZ, almost Premier spec. Well above Kingswood

missing the point.

The Holden name was given to a 4 door sedan first, does that mean that all other body shapes aren't really Holdens? lol

Cheers
David

aka hq308belmont

www.hq308.com

My Shed

Brilliant Dave! this is a

Brilliant Dave! this is a good example of 4 door monaro deniers logic. Curly.

All that I have left to do is everything.

GT

I reckon Ferrari plus a heap more Euro based cars used the Gt badging way before ford did :)

Cheers,
John.

jeez

Glad I own a premier.... or is it a chev coz its got a chev badge on the grille lol

Cheers,
Shane.
*My Shed*
*My Email*
*Kylie Hamilton Photography*

all wound up

by a holden fan. getting wound up whilst using a router and wearing a hoodie is also un cool. Give me a grinder, anyday. cauterises as it cuts, lol

She was just a whiskey maker, but I loved her still.

toybox

Is a VG, VP, VR, VS Holden

Is a VG, VP, VR, VS Holden Ute a Commodore? ...... I challenge you to find a Commodore badge on one...

C'dore ute?

Excellent point!

HKing - of noms de plume.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

hoodie

i dont wear hoodies, they dont allow them at work, must be in uniform at all times,,2 door monaro owners will always say a 4 door is not a monaro,i am lucky to have owned both at some stage ,if its plated a monaro from the factory ,then a monaro it is

Stop Pretending

Real Monaro's have 2 doors - pretend Monaro's have 4 - Holden should have called them GTS 4-door, but figured "4-door Monaro" would sell more!

Pretending?

Who's the one pretending?

What Holden should or shouldn't have called them is irrelevant (as well as being based on opinion, not facts), they DID call them Monaro's.

The answer is simple, in some peoples OPINION Monaro's only came as 2 doors, the FACT is Holden sold and marketed both 2 door AND 4 door Monaro's.

Let the debate continue!

Cheers
David

aka hq308belmont

www.hq308.com

My Shed

Opinions

It is my opinion that NO 4 door Kingswood is or ever will be a Monaro.

It was a clever marketing ploy by Holden to sell more cars. No different to the talk 5 years ago of re-badging Vectra's and selling as Torana's... fact is that Aussies are a sentimental and superstitious bunch and fall for stupid marketing ploys.

A kingswood with wings does NOT equal a Monaro.
All those who have 4 door Kingswoods badged as Monaro's probably don't agree but the fact is your car will NEVER be as desired or worth anything near a 2 door Monaro of the same model.

Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

Restored is bored!

Torana

"No different to the talk 5 years ago of re-badging Vectra's and selling as Torana's..."

I have to correct you about this, that car wasn't a Vectra, it was a one-off prototype that Holden did for the motorshow. It had a twin turbo 3.6L V6 and it was rear wheel drive, Vectra's were/are front wheel drive. Holden never intended to produce it at the time, it was a clever marketing exercise to see how the public would react to the styling of the then un-released VE Commodore. For all intents and purposes it was a scaled down version of VE. Cadillac in the US are currently developing a car off that same design.

You right in most cases a 2 door is worth more than a 4 door but using the same logic an A9X hatchback is worth more than a 4 door A9X so does that mean the 4 door isn't a real A9X? of course it doesn't.

A 4 door 350 Monaro is still a VERY desirable car.

The desirablity or worth has nothing to do with it, if it did then a using the same logic a 6 cylinder 2 door couldn't be considered a Monaro because it's worth less and is less desirably than a 350 4 door which you're already saying isn't desirable enough to be a Monaro.

I can see where you're coming from though, because Holden prostituted the Monaro name by sticking it on all 2 door's those of us old enough to remember, sometimes see Monaro as a body style.

Cheers
David

aka hq308belmont

www.hq308.com

My Shed

Who is/was pretending?

I think Holden was pretending that their 4 door sedans were actually Monaros. Sow's ear, silk purse & so on & so forth...

HKing - a rose is a rose is a daisy with rose-scented spray on it.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

lol

prick - I spat out my scotch'n'dry then.

Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

Restored is bored!

Spitoon?

I been called better & I been called worser.

Sorry mate!

HKing - of the Walloon Saloon.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Gemini Monaro

Yeh like a Gemini Monaro coupe!

My Rodeo single cab Monaro has two doors also....

Opinions

i,am with emu on this one

Cheers Joe

i see some people say four

i see some people say four door monaros are not monaros because they were not raced, hmmm by this time the LJ LC took over the main races, this is why there were not many HQ'S racing, to big and bad braking compare to the small torana,if it wasn't for the toranas there wouldnt be this discusion

old holdens never die,just keep getting stronger

trans am-kingswood rebiuld

Racing?

Racing has zero to do with it IMHFO.

On another note, the whole reason I love old Holdens is because of Torana's. IMHFO, the 4 door SLR 5000 is the greatest Aussie car ever. I have wanted one forever and still love seeing a nicely presented one.

Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

Restored is bored!

...and they're racing...!

I'm happy to stand corrected on the issue of HQ 4-drs being raced. Seems they were, as were the 2-drs. We all know that the GTR Toranas were the MAIN focus for Holden's racing program. Even the earlier HG Monaro had altered factory spring rates reflecting this.

My stance, however, remains.

If some folk agree, that's fine. If others don't, that is also fine. 'Tis not an life-changing topic, after all.

Hancock - of Rosewood.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

hk the real monaro

theres only 1 monaro and its the one where it all began the mighty HK GTS is and always will be the best monaro of them all you can say whatever you like no real muscle car has 4 doors

Holden the only way to move

Brainiac.

Dead right: GT Falcons and A9X 4dr sedans (less were 2drs I think) were but pale shadows of REAL muscle cars.
Thank goodness someone with brains has injected some intelligence into this conversation.

HKing - !?!?!

P.S. Doesn't 'Monaro' deserve a capital?

P.P.S. People, have I just fallen for a troll post?

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Agreed

The HK is the best of the monaro's but there is nothing wrong with 4 door cars.

SLR 5000 4dr Torana is my favourite car of all time.

Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

Restored is bored!

A monaro is:

built in bare metal, surface rust and bad welding..... thats all your legendary Monaros are..... no different to ANY other 70's Holden.

As for the suggested devious marketing trying to trick us into buying a sedan with Monaro written on it, I think Joe Bloggs was well aware what he was buying back in nineteen seventy whatever....
All car names were subject to marketing, god didnt step in to bless the coupe the Monaro, marketing did. The two and four door cars were Holdens Babies so they could name them whatever they liked!

All that I have left to do is everything.

anyone

call a cab???????

Extra doors

It seems those people with two extra doors on their (cough cough) "Monaro" will keep on about how they own a Monaro but secretly, deep down inside they know and wish their Holden only had two doors.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning,it smells like, like.........VICTORY
PC 5211
My Girls
EMAIL ME

monaro

Emu,,are you sure its not Ostrich,i can guess where you stick your head,,,if it left holden plated as a 4 door monaro then thats what it is and no amount of whinging by you or any other is going to change that,toranas came out as 2 & 4 doors and they are still called torana,Dóh

2 versus 4 door monaro

fact they both left the factory as a gts monaro only

fact only the 2 doors came in an ls model (sedan being premier) and base monaro (sedan being a kingswood) the hx le coupe (id as a gts coupe) sedan version being a statesman caprice at the time where aimed at the buisness man being a luxury pack car like its predecessor the ls monaro

the gts 4 door monaro was built due to public demand for a large sports model that you could put rear passengers in easily ie to compete with the likes of the falcon gt of its day

the 2 doors where dropped because they became unattractive to the buyers being it was hard to put the kids in and out of the back of them

i do own a hx gts 4 door that i have had since i was 18 i will be 30 this year and i love the car i would love a hj gts 2 door or a hg gts 2 door to have as well but i dont have the cash to make it happen

as for one being worth more than the other i have seen stuiped prices put on both and not many seem to get it but a 2 door is generally more expensive due to it being exclusive and not easily mocked up

crazywrecker located in werribee vic 3030 wanted old unwanted cars melb call nick 0409308531

sorry hk king

yes the Monaro does deserve a capital sorry mate funny how it seems that only the people that have 4 doors are the ones saying there cars are Monaros.... and as for holden wanting to sell cars that kids can get in and out of you can get kids in and out of 2 doors its very easy you push the lever on the side of the seat and it folds forward lol.... i have owned and still own lots of cars 2 and (4 door taxi)variety but the pillarless beauty that the HK GTS MONARO has and never will be suppassed.... the a9x is a classic example of what im talking about you can say you own an a9x but unless you have 2 doors on it deep down you know it will never be judged like the 2 door version now im putting my flame suit on lol....

Holden the only way to move

Toranas and Monaros

4 door Torana's are still Torana's.

4 door Kingswood's are not Monaro's.

Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

Restored is bored!

4 door Kingswoods are not Monaros

You're right a 4 door Kingswood is not a Monaro (it's a Kingswood)

but a 4 door Monaro is a Monaro.

hq308 - having fun going round and round.

Cheers
David

aka hq308belmont

www.hq308.com

My Shed

spot on emu

you dont see gtr badges or gtr xu1 stickers on a 4 door torrie do you....so if you put all the options from a xu1 on a 4 door you can have your very own 4 door xu1 hey....

Holden the only way to move

2 doors 4 doors

Lets brake the word down.....your standing to one side of a holden and see a badge...mon...ar....o... ok
mon(ar)o mono...meaning 1, 1 door on that side of the car...
mo(NAR)o nar meaning anything after the ht was not a monaro....nar its not a monaro...
o.....o thats a monaro...
simple

ht hg hk were monaro.....anything after that were just try hards...

please note the word coupe through out this artical.....
In late 1967, with nine months to go til its launch, Holden's new sports coupe was still without a name. Its strongly US-influenced design suggested something along the lines of Chevrolet's Camaro, or the Oldsmobile Toronado from which it took several styling cues - but although Holden had sifted through hundreds of suggestions, none seemed to have that special ring.

Then Noel Bedford, a technical stylist and member of Holden's design team, was driving through Cooma, New South Wales, Australia on holiday when a sign on the council offices took his eye: 'It said Monaro County Council' in western-type lettering that reminded me of 'Marlboro Country' and Camaro. It seemed to me so simple and logical. Why didn't somebody think of it before? I was quite excited and couldn't wait to get back to work.' After quickly checking for copyright and dialect meaning, an impromptu board meeting , held next to Noel Bedford's drafting table, instantly approved the name.

'Monaro' is of aboriginal origin, meaning a high plateau or high plain. The coupe shares its name with the Monaro range, which is part of NSW's Snowy Mountains as well as the Monaro Shire, just south of Canberra, ACT.

One of the men responsible for the Monaro lines that ran like arteries of aggravation over the staid old HK bath tub was John Schinella, a talented young designer on loan from Detroit. He was to later impart the same sense of urgency over the whole passenger car range on the arrival of the HQ.
Latin blood ran through his veins and it was he who is credited with applying the GTS tag to the sportier versions of the Monaro in sympathy for Ferrari. For what it is worth, GT in Italian is Gran Turismo. Add an S for GTS in Ferrari speak and you get Gran Turismo Spyder or an open roof version. Add a B for GTB and that means it's a Gran Turismo Berlinetta or a two seater fixed head coupe. It is a nomenclature used to this day on Ferraris. The Monaro was often ruthless, never roofless. The Monaro gave GTS its own special Australian meaning. Today's GTS superimposes a more authentic European flavour over the brute force of the early Monaros. The local GTS lineage is a story of being there when the time was right and absent when it wasn't.

Modified is horrified

Slip of the brain or tongue?

I remember when Mike Kelly was campaigning for the federal seat of Eden-Monaro for Labor in 2004(?). He pronounced it "MonARo" instead of, correctly, 'MonAIRo'.
I believe he was a quite highly regarded member of the Australian Army and may even be continuing his work/representation of them in a more legal capacity now. (Jeez, haven't they needed it lately too...!)

There was some debate of his connection to that district, with accusations that he was a high profile canditate parachuted in to snare the seat. He did win though and I don't think he's made the same mistake again, as he's retained it at both subsequent federal polls.

AntonyGreen - of Rosewood.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Monaro

"meaning anything after the ht was not a monaro"

You'd better redo your signature blissy. lol

HG was built after HT.

Cheers
David

aka hq308belmont

www.hq308.com

My Shed

let the debate continue

4 door monaros are better cause they have more doors

*Dave sticks his tounge out at door lacking 2 door owners*

Thrust!

En garde, Monsieur Bliss...!

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

2 doors

r better cause you dont have to buy rear door rubbers......

Modified is horrified

Parry!

Touche, Monsieur DaveQuey!

(yes, this is Holden related, as GMH named one of their Commodore variants after a small, charmless, port city of Calais)

HRoi - Rosebois.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

one & a Half doors

well they are bloody long on a 2 door Monaro.haw haw

She was just a whiskey maker, but I loved her still.

toybox

all

overpriced puss piles anyways

musclewrecker

now you are talking about fords i gather as upwards of 200k for a TAXI rotflmao

Holden the only way to move

nah

not just them, but all aussie cars thet you guys reckon are worth heaps. and i will add that they ask $200k for them, and $100k for a wanna be tornado but they get a very different figure when they change hands, believe me when i tell you that, and the cracker is still the toranas, hahahah@big $$$ asked for a fknn shopping trolly sunbird with a mascara line on the hood and flares that resemble a weightwatchers gathering of big bumms

spot on

all cars are way over priced m8 just fords more than others but i still say a true muscle car weather it be aussie or american only has 2 doors....ive seen a hk 327 change hands for over 300k a gt change hands for 750k and the black one i think went for 1mill how the hell can they be worth this sort of money....

Holden the only way to move

strangely I sorta agree with you MW

I never got the whole A9X or other Torana thing. Ive restored a few for folk as well - nope still dont want one. These are cars that really only look the part as a fully fledged race car in race car livery. To me they lack any nice flowing lines - everything is designed as an add on and is a little too utilitarian and boxy. Its a bit like the HKTG Monaros - more appealing and stylish by far but I still dont want one.

However I look at these cars subjectively instead of objectively. They are what they are and can be restored very nicely - but definitely will never be my cup of tea.
Then again it would be a boring world if we all had identical tastes- horses for courses.
Cheers streetneat-Andrew.

Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

There is a black A9X hatch up

There is a black A9X hatch up here I'm sure you might like.
It has 15x10 hotwires on the back and 14x8 hotwires on the front with tyres that actually fill all the flares and nice front down attitude. Add dark window tint and a hot looking owner.
It's the only Torana I've ever had any desire to own.
David

Old is good.

lol

4 door boys just remember TAXI....

Holden the only way to move

Marketing, names & identity.

The only REAL Sandman is (should've been) a 4WD Sandman.

HKing - surfing with sharks off Indian Head.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

A real 4x4 Sandman is a

A real 4x4 Sandman is a Overlander. All the display vehicles at Sydney Motor Show were 308 Sandman based way back when the Overlander was first released.
David

Old is good.

I tried to search this to see

I tried to search this to see some pictures but no luck.
I cant say im a fan of the chassis setup in the original overlanders, id guess they would most likly crack near the firewall, but ive never seen one up close or herd of this. There isnt much vertical support for the bends in the holden chassis. Unlike, say a nissan patrol that has a 150mm high double c channel box section that has a very good vertical strength.

All that I have left to do is everything.

They ran a modified front

They ran a modified front chassis to take leaf springs. Front and rear axles were Jeep with Dana 30 centres and they all had a 308 with Turbo350 gearbox I think.
Custom Rodder had a feature on the ute. If I can find the magazine I'll scan the feature and send it.
David

Old is good.

oh that would be cool, id be

oh that would be cool, id be intersted in reading that.

All that I have left to do is everything.

my hg hking

It in a league of its own...gold aircleanered monaros my friend are the true monaro coupés....end of discussion right their

Modified is horrified

Faux four door coupé

What if I have a Weber carb? Can I paint the 'Alloy Head II' aircleaner gold? Could I just modify the bass of the Falc aircleaner to fit a old gold Holden one?

How much extra horsepower could I expect?
How many extra chicks could I attract?

HKing - of Calais.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

yeah

with them sort of fully sick mods you can pull lots of chicks but you must do them mods to a 4 door TAXI as its easyer to get them in and out of rotflmao....

Holden the only way to move

the spelling nazi

Where is he?

Try modifying the base of the air cleaner Michael.
Will be easier to put in the vice than the bass.

Phil
2570

Phil
2570

Le Resistance!

Well noticed. 10 points to your team Phil!

I had to go back and put that mis-spelling in for Blissy to pick on :-) ..."end of discussion right their"

HeilKing - of Rosewood.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Back to Base

Why didn't they make a "base-model" 4-door Monaro? Oh, that's right - they did! The Belmont! Shame they never made a 2-door version.....

And the best version

They did, the Ute...

4 into 3dr?

Isn't that a 4 dr? What with that hatch (of sorts) at the back...
'Vanaro'?

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Vanaro..?

Nah, here's another one, you can see where it has no "4th" door.
http://gallery.oldho...

........Tim.

✄--------------------------------------------------------

-_--_--_ _______._
_--_-_ -/___+__|__\__
.,.,.,.,,.,|_O ________O_|

3 door Belmont.

Nice bit of work getting that wagon sideglass into the p'van side. Less need for 'discretion' in the back of an ambo, compared to a 'sin bin', I guess.

HKing - velour, floor to ceiling.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Naming debate

To think that Holden built a car for any other reason than to make money as a first priority is fanciful. Therefore whatever name they give the car they produced and marketed to sell to make money is what the car is called.
No need for all the emotion to cloud the facts.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

Whats in a name

My Crewman is often referred to as a Commodore - yet there is no tag badge or glovebox book that says a thing about Commodores in reference to my Crewman. So by definition its a Holden Crewman ...with Chev Badging of course :-) The SSZ badging ( original not added by myself) confuses the hell out of guys here in NZ who wonder if it was an export Chev. Well yes and no - it was exported from Aussie and its not a Chev I tell 'em. The next thing Im asked is can I sell 'em Chev badges!

It confuses 'em more when I explain Chev badging your Holden is gay and they shouldnt do it.
:-)
Cheers streetneat-Andrew.

Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

Labelled AND badged?

What if they're actually gay? Could they do it then, or would that give homosexual folk a bad name? Y'know, supposedly/stereotypically being more interested in style than substance, heh heh :-)

HKing - "Not that there's anything wrong with that" (Seinfeld, '90s)

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Making two wrongs right

What if they're actually gay? Could they do it then, or would that give homosexual folk a bad name? Y'know, supposedly/stereotypically being more interested in style than substance, heh heh :-)

Well if the person was actually gay then It would be quite OK I guess. But pretending to be gay would be as bad as pretending your Holden is a Chev?
Now you point it Im starting to realise out how bad a person I am!- Never looked at it that way - so thanks
:-)
Its nearly as bad a being an Aussie that chooses to live in NZ- Hell Ive got it all goin' on havent I ? Im clearly a messed up person.

Cheers streetneat-Andrew.
ps - am I still supposed be happy or is contrition supposed to be the main theme now?
:-)

Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

No way!

Happy is not aloud... :-)

HKing - thinking allowed.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

Spade or Shovel?

Late V8 Commodores SHOULD have a "Chevrolet" logo - on the Chev motor!

[EDIT] But they....

....don't have a Chevrolet motor. It's just another piece of equipment fitted to [EDIT GM brands - Pontiac first, I believe, then Chev, Holden, Cadillac, Buick possibly, and even a Saab since].

HKing - of Rosewood.

'i'm definately shore that guage wont work with my tuff bango diff and Opal sydcrome box,if it goes though my grill,and I put the breaks on I realize its better with the glimer belt & tunned holly and Ederbrock duel feul webber gaurds, wiht etc primmer.'

anyways

can someone tell me if i can put commodore rims onto my 4 door HX monaro??

Yes.

But you must use spacers to make them extra safe.

........Tim.

✄--------------------------------------------------------

-_--_--_ _______._
_--_-_ -/___+__|__\__
.,.,.,.,,.,|_O ________O_|

commodore rims

No such thing as a 4 door HX monaro or didn't you know??

Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

Restored is bored!

Commode Door

As long as they don't have "Commodore" stamped in them from the factory, they'll be O.K.


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