Spark plug indexing versus concept plug tests will begin this weekend.

Yep.. all ready to go now.

I can already tell you that the Brisks are the way to go. No doubt whatsoever.

I will however, stick with the original plan and do the indexing tests, so that people opting to stick with the "J" gaps can know what the optimum angle is.

Anything you particularly want to see?

I'm extending the tests to include the old mans 186S powered ute now, for reasons that will become apparent later on down the track.

Sixes are more plentiful than red hot eigthts so it seems, and I'm happy to cover both.

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Ross.

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Click on the blue "no thumbnail" link, it will shoot you to a download option.

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Ross.

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Hi Ged,

You can make contact using this info below. I know he'll be out of the country from the 6th of June to the 27th June.

Robert Morton (Brisk distributor)
PO Box 1267
ST KILDA VIC 3182

Ph: 03 9531 1315
Fax: 03 9531 1315
Mob: 0418 389 367
Email: rob@brisksparkplugs.com.au
Web: www.brisksparkplugs....

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Ross.

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Dickhead me, Didn't relise i had to click on "Download document", lol.

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Hi,

Yes they are specifically designed for high energy output ignitions, I wouldn't run them on an old points dizzy.

The part number is HOR15LGS, which is compatible with that Bosch plug you're using, or so I believe.

Apparently they do make a 14 as well. Next time around I'll try the 14's.

Of course an MSD is going further again, but I wouldn't go that way just yet, I'd use a standard system and make it earn it's keep.

If you really want to get fair dinkum, buy a set of NOLOGY leads and light them up with those.

The NOLOGY leads incorporate a capacitor and what appears to be a Faraday Cage to shut up the RFI, they are reported to work well, and when coupled with the Brisks, you would definately be quite a bit further ahead than most.

** I believe this is an intensifier principal.

Tonight I recieved a link to an interesting radio interview that went for 30 odd minutes with Robert Krupa, the inventor of the Firestorm, and in it, he's saying stuff that really gets the old ears pricked up.

I already know from the results of my little test that what he's saying is right, and I'd like to push it further and see if I can't get something close to what he saw.

You would have saw the exhaust temp drop by indexing to optimum, then again when the Brisks went in.

You are indexing aren't you?

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Ross.

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Ok, change mechanics, the fellow you've been seeing is obviously not very well informed.

You can't use a pencil to mark a spark plug as the lead content will effectively short it out. Use a felt tipped marker.

Yes, you mark it so that you can see at a glance which direction the open end of the plug is facing, and index accordingly using that information.

First thing to do, is make sure your HEI is getting enough "power" from the start, by fitting a 30 amp feed wire to it, effectively replacing the yellow loom wire with a heavier guage. That will get the HEI cracking the way it should.

It's not a big job and will absorb maybe 10 minutes of your life in doing so, but the benefits are more than worth the effort.

What I mean about the Nology leads was simply this, they are the best available leads and definately transfer the spark at a higher rate, making a bigger brighter spark, thereby burning more fuel/air on each stroke.

They would need to be fitted correctly though, but for now, yes, fit the Brisks, that will be a leap for you, in that the Brisks are far superior to a standard "J" gap plug.

There is more to all this than simply bolting in a set of Brisks, I'd be chasing that 30 amp power wire at the same time.

You will notice a distinct difference in the way the engine runs just by fitting the Brisks.

I just found out that Lamborghini are using them, so that gives them major cred in my book too. The dago's don't run crap gear on their favourite thoroughbred, and who can argue that they don't know what they're on about.

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Yes, the yellow wire needs should be replaced too, with 30 amp.

I've seen it plenty of times(and been guilty of it myself) where people have run 30 amp everywhere else, yet failed to actually replace the yellow wire with a 30 amp length as well.

That skinny little yellow wire is a real weak point, and diminishes the gain that can be realised with upgrading to HEI.

The contact details I posted for the Melbourne distributor would have gotten you through to the main man. Actually, he left Australia today and won't be until the end of the month now, so your way might be better.

You will need to double check the heatrange for yourself via the distributor over there, to ensure you're getting the right ones for your application. HOR15LGS are what I used in the 312 cube engine here.

Spark plug leads huh?
You see the thread I started today, about the Nology leads?

If you want the best possible leads, they appear to be where it's at.

I'm going after a set myself, but am awaiting a reply on available lengths, as I want them to look neat.

Looked at in this light, the plugs will be covered, the leads as well, and I feel the Bosch dizzy is more than capable, so if the loom is in order, then the only place left is the coil.

I'm looking into higher output coils soon too.

I know you'll get good results from the plugs alone, and my only fear is that the loom you're using may let it down if that scrawny little yellow wire is still in use.

Regards,
Ross.

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Welcome back, good to see you back online again. I hope you can stay in shape now, or try to at least.

The ground we're covering with regard to the spark plugs, leads and other items is indeed interesting, and the HHO stuff is quite exciting once you get your head around it all.

I'm sure you'll catch up pretty quickly.

Deb kept us up to date with your progress and, well, I meant what I said, if you need anything, or if I'm able to assist, then I surely will. It's just the way I am.

No thanks required matey.

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They take a long time to load huh...

I added them quickly today as they were just sitting on my hard drive and I needed them to be kept elsewhere, in case I lose my HD again.

I also wanted them where others can see them, as they're relevent to the whole Firestorm concept which is being discussed elsewhere on the internet.

Things are heating up with regard to the whole spark plug caper Ged.

Hopefully I'll be fit enough to get some more work done soon.

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Basically it was just 2 older vids, shot in a better light, which show the colour changes in the spark that the Firestorm concept plug has, against what a standard "J" gapped plug puts out.

The aim of the vids was only ever to capture those colour changes, as they're relevant to the power of the spark itself.

The colours represent the temperature of the spark plasma.

It's not real important stuff to the layman, but it's highly important to someone who understands what it means.

You saw for yourself what happens when I apply pressure to the spark, and you saw what the plasma did, so just imagine looking at the Brisk plug firing under pressure, as opposed to the standard plug, which could hardly be seen.

That's pretty much what the vids show, only in open air. The difference is about as stark to a keen observer.

I wasn't going to go back to tampering with the Firestorm concept plug as I'm hoping to see them on the market soon. The inventor is currently in Brazil, negotiating with the Government there, apparently they want to use them in all vehicles over there, for the obvious advantages that would bring to their economy and of course their environment.

Basically something cropped up on an energy site of which I'm a member, and it's reignited interest in the Firestorm.

Last week another 100% water car popped into the spotlight, getting 100 miles per ounce of water, no kidding, so you can see why people are getting so worked up over it.

There are several of these vehicles running around now.

And today I saw a bunch of evidence which shows a certain HHO gen concept that gets 40-50mpg out of those big V8 diesels.

Interesting times Dusty.

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I too, get the feeling that quite a lot of people are interested in this stuff too, given the emails I've had.

I had a bit of a look around today online, and see that things are steadily moving ahead.

One bloke has developed a spark plug that utilises the electrode as a water injector. Interesting.

It allows the water vapour to cross the sparking electrode, thereby igniting the water with a plasma.

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There's plenty of evidence to support what you just said, plenty.

It seems that people from various governments and from the oil and gas mobs sneak around this stuff with keen interest.

It doesn't help matters when the inventor Stanley Meyer, the fellow who drove across america in his water powered dune buggy, and is currently touted as having accelerated the hype surrounding this stuff, winds up dead under suspicious circumstances.

I've seen clear evidence that other blokes at the cutting edge of this stuff are taking cover, for obvious reasons. The bloke in New Zealand openly states that he fears for his safety, and he definately doesn't look like the sort of bloke who'd worry about that sort of thing ordinarily.

It stands to reason that the worlds economy is largely dependant on fossil fuel sales, so imagine what would happen if a simple way to side step buying fossil fuel products appeared on the scene.

It'd be chaos....

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The plugs you mentioned have multiple earth straps which protrude up above the electrode, this often causes a shielding effect at certain points of the sparking event.

Sure they put out the goods to a certain degree, but their gain is offset, and sometimes let down by that shielding effect.

The Brisk has no earth straps to get in the way of the spark igniting the swirling fuel/air, in fact the 4 earth "nubs" allow multiple sparks to travel from the electrode at the same time, at cutback angles of about 120 degrees, so instead of just 4 spark paths, you can get several more, I've counted 10 spark events at once in open air.

"J" gaps still have their place I suppose, but when looking for the best gain, you really can't go past a concept which actively eliminates the most apparent pitfalls from their design.

Besides, I heard a whisper that the +4 design was acquired by dubious means(pinched) from our friends at Crane Cams while their concept plug as being tested in Stuttgart, coincidently by the same mob who are marketing it now.

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Great post there, it certainly encourages further comment.

Master? Far from that ol' mate. It's a full time job just being me....

I'm not really all that puzzled as to Magnacore's actual intentions in writing that article, and I believe you're entirely correct in suspecting they'd be of a slightly biased opinion. It has to be recognised that Nology would be a very serious threat to Magnacore in the marketplace, likely their number one threat.

It goes without saying that Magnacore are probably the world leaders in spark plug lead development at this time, so I can see why they're worried about Nology. You wouldn't devote so much time and effort on a rivals product unless it was viewed as a threat would you?

A lot of the article suggests Nology leads are not worth having, yet careful reading of their rant verily supports the technology that's inbuilt in the Nology product.

If you read that article slowly and carefully, they paint the Nology Hotwire both ways, on the one hand, agreeing they're well made, agreeing they produce a much brighter spark and then they suggest that as it's not supported properly by clear evidence, so then they're no good.

Why these jokers simply don't provide data along the lines of what I did with my tests is just beyond comprehension.

Anyway, my understanding of it all goes something like this, the colour of the spark event in itself tells you the temperature it's running at, when compared against a simple temperature chart dipicting colours throughout the heat ranges. These charts are all very similar, they're easy to use, and hard to dispute.

If you Google up a "temperature by colours chart", look at where the blue colour is in the spectrum, then note the hue change as the temperatures rise, and you'll see it shift into the apricot/red hues, then advance well beyond that, into the white.

Clearly white is much "hotter" than blue will ever be, a simple glance at the temperatures related to those colours supports this reasoning. We all know that blue flame is markedly colder than white on any given day of the week.

I may be totally wrong here by assuming spark colours react to temperature changes in the same way as a flame would, but I feel confident in supporting that theory, and choose to subscribe to the obvious advantages of using these colour charts in this way.

Imagine trying to cut steel with the blue flame of a gas stove(can't) for example, then relate that to what happens when you use an oxy torch to do the same thing, you simply can't ignore the fact that the flame needs to be made hotter, into the white, to get the job done at all.

Also consider the radiant heat aspect, the slower flame tends to heat up everything around it, yet the white flame does the cutting and leaves the surrounding area markedly cooler by comparison. This is likely where the temperature drops in the combustion chamber, mentioned by Robert Krupa, are "hidden", in the faster ignition of the fuel/air by the much faster flame front brought on by the brighter more powerful spark. My tests support this theory entirely and the temperature readings taken are hard to dispute.

The NASA blokes behind MSD Ignitions(and T) offer a far better description of the event when they suggest it's much easier to light a bonfire with a flame thrower, as opposed to using a lit match. That's how I view a combustion chamber event, and that's the philosophy I tend to lean towards too.

The reason the vids I shot were done in the dark, was to capture the colour changes apparent with the different sparks, and you can clearly see the colours going beyond blue, into the apricot/red, and into the white, these were in open air. That was obviously before I purchased the pressure testing cell.

Now pressurise those sparks and they leap further into the colour that they started out in. The blue remains blue, but much brighter, then the same with the white. It glows with incredible intensity. The Firestorm apparently reaches strobe proportions, and I certainly don't dispute that it can be achieved, given what I've seen so far.

I showed Blissy, Dusty, Pam and several others what occurs when you pressurise a spark, and they saw for themselves this "amplifying" effect, under pressure. I can easily see a strobe effect being headed toward.

Yes, a capacitor does make RFI, no question, and that's why the braided strap(Faraday Cage) on the Nology lead is there, to capture it and put it to ground, so, if the strap fails, you will know about it as soon as you turn on the am/fm radio in the car, and yes, you will "buzz" everyone else around you with your emitted RFI when driving, should a strap fail.

I believe it's illegal to emit RFI too, so you'd need to keep on top of that aspect, rather than be defected for making those types of emissions.

Remember too that old holdens are not very technical, in that they are just basic engines without the latest computers and gadgets, and Magnacore's rant sort of suggests that these engines are better suited to these Nology leads as well.

I've seen data that suggests people with computer cars have had the odd problem arise, usually if they've fitted the wrong spark plugs, or foolishly bolted the earth strap to an electrical component that needs to be kept isolated from these types of things, that's not to say the leads are bad, that's just to say that uneducated people make mistakes, which goes hand in hand with almost anything you can buy and use these days. There will always be someone who has a problem arise, and rather than admit they're out of their league, or that they've made a mistake, they'll simply dismiss the product out of hand. It happens all the time.

Getting back to RFI, years ago, when drawing close to any speedway or drag strip, you could always pick up RFI on the car radio as you got closer to a venue, and I think the authorities stopped racers from using copper core leads for this reason. I may be wrong there, but I recall hearing something about it.

I note that article suggests "intensifiers" may give the human eye the "illusion" of a brighter spark too, well bugger me, if your eyes see a white spark, as opposed to a blue spark, then what's that telling you? Should you believe a market worried Magnacore, or your lying eyes.

At the end of the day, Nology are simply doing what I was attempting to do with the fitting of a capacitor, or intensifier, to the system, and they've done a great job.

You would have to view these sparking events in person to appreciate the differences, and you would be drawn right into what it's all about, once you start "stretching" these sparks and watching what happens to the colours then.

You already know the spark entering the intensifier is blue, then you open the air gap and watch what happens as it gets stronger and stronger, changing hues along the way, you end up with a bright purple plasma at the longest air gaps, which hits the plug in the white colour range. The idea is to apparently open the air gap until it's almost shorting, that way it's sending the most powerful "backed up" spark possible. I simply need to do more tests to see what this is all about.

I suppose there would have to be degrees of "white" as well, in relation to power of the plasma, it stands to reason that there would have to be something "beyond" that point too. I suspect that "beyond" white is that strobe effect that the Firestorm reaches.

All that aside, Callaway are exclusively using Nology on all their cars now, I caught that in a press release the other day, and quite a few of the big racer fellows are onboard too, and one big name bloke there is laughing at the lengths his competitor are going to, in order to hide the fact they're using the Nology leads, he says they are trying to disguise them by various means.

Watch this: http://video.google....

It's a interesting watch, yet there they go too, why don't they give us the actual dyno reports? None of them do this, ever...I suspect they all use different dyno settings and don't want anyone knowing what settings they percieve to be correct. How many times have you heard about different dyno's producing different results. There should be a standard in place for dyno's.

Anyway, hypothetically, it just stands to reason, that if you gain a 1/2 second per lap, for arguments sake, then stretch that out over 100 laps, you'd be quite a way ahead of the next joker wouldn't you? That said, I note that "intensifiers" are outlawed in most forms of racing here, for reasons unexplained,(RFI perhaps) a quick look at different rule books(class) yields that interesting point.

Evidence I've seen suggests 7hp and 10ft/lb gains are very real. Combine that with a plug like the Brisk, and your away.

It pays to note that Brisk are making plugs for Nology now, so you can take that for what it's worth as well.

I'm confident that this is the way to go, and the results of my tests support it all the way. I'm puzzled as to why we aren't seeing these types of tests being offered up for scrutiny anywhere else, what's that all about?

Simple exhaust gas analysis says it all for me, and the exhaust, head and spark plug shell temps don't lie either.

I'm constantly amazed at naysayers knocking a concept when clear evidence supports its viability, should one take the time to actually look for it themselves.

The test results I posted here on OH are the real deal HK, and they're very hard to ignore or dispute.

I'd be very interested to hear what they had to say when confronted with evidence like that......

Regards,
Ross.

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Yes, you may be right about the Brisk distributor here being the main man, he'll be back soon enough though.

The Brisk website leads directly to him too, so that may explain why your man is not up to speed.

Ok, the yellow wire, the reason I'm saying the yellow wire should be upgraded is this:

I fitted a Procomp clone(streetfire) HEI to my HZ Prem, and it's a 1 wire distributor, meaning that you only connect the 1 wire(yellow) to get it running. This leads me to believe the yellow is the full 12 volts, otherwise how would it get the dizzy running without any other wires attached?

Now I never upgraded my yellow wire either, yet I intend to.

When I fitted that dizzy, it made a very definate improvement over the standard points dizzy, so I never bothered to upgrade the yellow at that time.

Having witnessed first hand the different outputs between that Procomp unit, as opposed to the 30 amp all the way wiring in the Statesman, fitted with the big capped Bosch dizzy, I can see that the Procomp needs more oomph, and given that the only wire connected to it is that little skinny yellow, it stands to reason that by upgrading it, I should get more bang for my buck.

I used a test light when checking for which wire was required to connect up the Procomp, and the only live wire available was the yellow, so it must be a full 12 volts, otherwise how did it run the old dizzy?

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Ross.

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Let me know the link and I'll delete it.

T

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Holdenpaedia, they're the brakes Mate.

I agree with your view of the info.

T

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Holdenpaedia, they're the brakes Mate.

Quote,

"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?"

Unquote.

Thank Albert Einstein for that pearler.(Golf clap)

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Ross.

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