Induction myths Holden 6 ,Damn triple webers, EFI and Holleys
I am now feeling like the king of rebuilding and sorting out inductions for Holden 6's , I dont know how you guys do it , I really dont. I have a metal fab shop and a few sheds, and even with plasmas and tigs, I still get bogged down on simple jobs on my cars!!!! Anyway, here is a chapter of mine I thought I should share
In my eternal search I have worked out in the real world what is a good/great /amazing set of webers for a semi serious Holden 6 . For what it is worth, here is what I have done and where I am up to.
Car is my second string LJ GTR 82911 , as I also have an early 1973 Xu1 as well.
Engine is as follows. All done in my workshop which just so happens to have a Petersen Mill for head work and a great operator who has done heads for drag cars in the 8's and 9's aspirated, so it is good to have those guys on "wages" not getting a bill from an engine shop!!!
Blue bottom end , blueprinted, clearanced and fully grooved main bearings.
Starfire rods obviously with a set of ARPS fitted
HQ racing series pistons with ultrafine 1/16th rings
Solid Camshaft with all lifter heights revised using Pontiac lifters and cam has 485" lift .
Cylinder head work only minor done to 12 port head, it flowed really well ( amazingly well in stock form which I didnt realize!!!!!) so we fitted slightly increased valve sizes and did some minor short radius work on ports and general clean up and it outflowed my Bathurst xu1 head!!!! SERIOUSLY
Top of bore was releived to shape of combustion chamber and pacemakers were also matched to suit cylinder head.
Valve springs were changed to "serious" double springs and quality retainers and collets etc.
Head was machined to accept 7/16 "bolt on" YT rollers and from factory they had awful gemotery hence pontiac lifters and non std pushrods etc
Recurved electronic ignition and after using every brand of coil ever made, I switched back to a "NEW" standard blue motor coil for best results.
Ignition leads, again, after all super dooper and mega race leads were used I went and bought genuine holden leads and they were absolutely spot on .
I can quote any spring, cam or bore spec, but dont want to bore you guys!!!
I dont want to hear anyone say that their red/blue/black motor revs to 8500 rpms all day and that this engine sucks, I am only just relaying my ACTUAL findings ok...
Set up # 1
Holley 350 on redline manifold. ........awful as I had remembered as a 19 year old , reasonable idle note and fiddling with jets and power valves was worthwhile, but wow, they have no GOOOOOOOOO like even a std carb has .Ordinary to drive , no idea or interest in fuel economy figures
DYNO 122 Rear wheel horsepower at 5350rpm and running oit of puff
Even fitted carb venturi restrictors, Hp IDENTICAL ( 120 at 5200 rpm)
Set up #2 blue engine head, so we fitted VK injection.
Had a set up with modified computer and harness, so it was an easy way out, but still a pain in the ass with return lines and a lot of BAD wiring on my part.
Totally not interested in this set up, lifeless, soul less, and got us 116 Hp on dyno and was just not me........"I like the smell of fuel in the morning...smells like victory"
Set up # 3
Holley 600 Double pumper on custom made manifold with high riser( will not clear standard bonnet with air cleaner fitted on LJ)
(Was actually not as throaty at idle as 350 even after fiddling with dyno guys, and maybe suspect on idle circuit etc)
This rocks and was very good on pick up ( square bore etc) and accelleration and when you dropped those secondaries in this motor loved it, no flat spot or hesitation, but IT HAD TO WARM UP!!!!!)
Massive punch in mid range and really felt like a race motor should even with single 2 1/2" system. Engine will lean out under moderate accelleration and then just drop the secondaries in and it goes up a notch in a big way. Great induction roar.
SIMPLE BUT EFFECTIVE, and you can smell the fuel!!!
Dyno after fiddling for a few hours
197 Hp at 6250 rpm ( HOLY CRAP ) was this a big lift
Dyno guy said this was probably the set up for THIS engine as it really gave that cam some punch up in the rev range. BUT anyway.................
Set up # 4 Triple dcoe 45mm webers on a redline manifold
I didnt own this set up, but a friend did and he said while car was getting a fresh engine to go ahead .
Ummmm, what to say about this.........HOLY #$%K
Totally undriveable in this configuration in terms of being able to control myself from floooring it the whole time, but that sound is just like nothing on earth, it was like I had a completely new engine ................just amazing, I had triple su's 15 years ago and they are not even in the same planet, let alone comparable to these damn 45s
I dropped 40 litres of fuel in a bit over an hour of driving on some bitumen back roads.
SHOCK HORROR DYNO 211 Horsepower in that trim (we couldnt fiddle as I didnt own them) but with that sound.........how can that be??????????? :( This thing was seriously slaughtering tyres in third gear with a 3.08 diff and was just awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just walked away convinced guy had no idea and was sure this was going to give ma amazing figures that proved that all that money was worth it over the years.
GREAT...But I cant afford the fuel...YET
Set up # 5 40mm trick webers on a three piece manifold warnerford
Dyno guy had an ace up sleeve and pushed me into a trick set of triple dcoe 40mm webers that were in amazing condition and tricked up with additional drillings for air speed compensating and a HUGE set of spares for racing changes etc ( chokes and jets etc)
This is weird...........but these 40mm webers absolutely hauled so hard that I went in after a day of messing around with 2000 bucks in my wallet and hoped for the best not knowing if he wanted to sell them or not.
I asked hime casually if they were for sale and he said he wanted at least 2000, so I now own them. I didnt even dyno this at this stage, it was all about the driveability.........it was like injection on a LS2 v8 , instant, regardless of revs, load or uphill, cornering etc...very hard to describe......but absolutely perfect......dont call me a pussy either, I am trying to give my best description here .
So we dynoed them............196 Hp at 6100rpm, but less is more with this set up, mid range, punch is amazing. Good hex linkages etc and just amazing driveability.
THIS IS ME........DONE
This was a huge task over a few months ok.Every damn change was all about fuel lines , accellerator cables, regulators and enormous amounts of energy and motivation sapping crap to go through........so be warned ok.
What I learned was that driveability is really what I want, to start my car up every week or so and take my 8 yo son out for a drive and get take away and just sit around and go to a few spots with his school mates, who think the LJ GTR is pretty cool.
I want it to start and sound good, not chew through fuel like crazy( 45mm's baby, just hold me back if I do see a cheap set)and have some reliability and good simple linkages etc.
Above all this, If i was going around OZtralia, I would throw that 600 DP in the boot for good measure, typical hollley, just bolt on and it was very very good.
DYNO HP is one thing, mid range and torque is just something totally different hey.