LPG as an Aircon gas
By Narkus 19/03/05@05:53
Anyone heard anything about using LPG as a airconditioning gas (R12) substitute ?
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LPG as an Aircon gas
By Narkus 19/03/05@05:53
Anyone heard anything about using LPG as a airconditioning gas (R12) substitute ? |
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LPG
NO GO - to dangerous, got yourself a time bomb there.
R12
The replacement FR12 (not the new 134A) does an excellent job, you only need around half the amount too, had my calais gassed for 70 bux and its ice cold.
cheers
:bounce:
john
Silence is Non Committal
LPG in air con
Using any flammable gas in an air con system is illegal, also due to the temperature extremes that the gas would be exposed to it would first freeze in the cold side and then more than likely explode on the hot side, in short don't do it, as arsewipe says it isn't expensive to have the right stuff done.
Propane is safe
The un qualified coments about flamable propane in a car system is very shortsighted.
Propane works very well and will not explode in the hot condensor, this comment is embarassing and shows a complete lack of knowlege.
to say propane in a air con
to say propane in a air con system isnt dangerous is like saying bin laden is mis-understood. propanr refrigerant has been banned for years as a number of people have blown themselves up. you wouldnt smoke or have a spark or flame around a lpg cyclinder ,then why would any clown put it in a car engine to save a few dollars, think about it.
aircon with lpg
Now i am going to get the piss pulled out of me here i know.
I do use lpg in my aircon systems & it works excellent. I first heard about it when i did my aircon coarse from my lecturer. The industry used to use it in car airconditioning as a replacement refrigerant when trying to find a replacement for the old r12 gas.
as for being a flammable gas it is no more flammable than you old r12 refrigerant.no one complained about it then .. you convert your car to lpg for an alternative fuel and dont worry about that exploding . 80litres of lpg compared to to 500gramms ????? lpg also has identicle characteristics as the old r12.
i have got my mrs car down to 1 - 2 degrees at the vent with lpg.
when i metioned it to a pannel beater next door to us at work he said taxi drivers have been using it for 20 years cause they are all tighter than a fishes ass to pay for r134a .
r134a doesn't work as well as r12 unless the system is designed for it.
but yes it does work well.
ok boys now hit me with your comments about it.
i am ready & waiting for the flack from every one ..
cheers Quent..
LPG
Well, I take my hat off, I went through tech 20 odd years ago, worked at Leech motors (Holden dealer in Qld)as a pre d mechanic about 15 years ago where I was doin aircon fitting (we used to use the R12 to cool our tinnies down :S )and I gotta say that Ive never b4 heard of it being used but I've been outta the game a long time so there is always a lot that comes around that is new to me.
:bounce:
john
Silence is Non Committal
LPG Aircon gas
That pretty much backs up what I had heard.
Cheers
Been around for a while
There is and australian company called OZ technology from memory that produce a R12 replacent. It is legal in Australia and in America but not in all states.
LPG In A/C
I'm an Autoelec with over 20 years exp in A/C. I too use LPG and Yes it works well. There was a study done a few years ago and Greenpeace got onboard. LPG is actuually more efficient than other refridgerants and also helps keep pressures low. Being a larger molecule, LPG doesn't leak like R12 and R134a. I used to use NC12a from OZ tech and it worked brilliant. So, Now I even use LPG in My home A/c and it works well., READ this for any Doubters..
http://www.es-refrig...
Good luck and don't go blowing yourselves up. cheers.
LPG as a/cond gas
Interesting reading, I knew lpg was one of the early refrigerants but I did'nt know it was coming back in. I'm curious if you (holden fan) have only used the commercial blends or have you used bottled LPG also?
lpg
i have used it myself,works great,yes there is a bit of danger if involved in a front end accident,but the danger is also there if the car runs on lpg.a few of the r12 replacement gasses contain a percentage of propane!
LPG as refrigerant
Has any one got a PT chart of LPG?
Without viewing one, i would not do it.
It can/could work in a system designed for it.
On a side note, Kelvinator once made a model of bar fridge that was running on Butane. It was the 1st of the ozone friendly fridges, but jod dam, they had a big compressor and used a lot more power then a normal HFC/CFC unit.
Trenton's Email
LPG PT relationship
It is called HC-290 when used as a refrigerant. Loosely similar PT characteristics to R22.
At 0 deg C it is about 54 psi (compared to 30 psi for R12 and 28 psi for R134A) and at 65 deg C it is 330 psi (compared to 234 psi for R12 and 263 psi for R134A).
The factory air-con systems fitted to HQ - WB's use a controlled pressure system to limit the minimum temperature. The STV is set at between 32 - 34 psi. This means if you put LPG in these systems then the evaporator temperature can get down to about minus 12 deg C, which will turn the evaporator into a big ice block. Will be very cold for a few seconds before the air stops coming out of the vents due to the evaporator fins being blocked with ice. It would work on a very hot day, or with zero humidity.
Temperature controlled systems (with a thermostat) would probably be OK.
Brett.
HC-290 = Propane
HC-290 is actually pure propane. LPG is a mix of propane and butane. The butane lowers the pressure and if the mix is just right (45%P-55%B) then you end up with very similar pressures to R12.
LPG is not necessarily a
LPG is not necessarily a mixture of Propane and Butane. 100% Propane can be sold as LPG.
Therefore saying that HC-290 is LPG is correct.
Brett.
i want a proper compreser used for refrigerater
i am working with my final year project as lpg as refrigerant & i want a perfect compreser for that purpose with their propertise.
email: anupkumar.rathod@gmail.com
LPG ref
So in other words, you will end up needing to fit a condensor twice the size for LPG actually to work & a new TX valve orifice at the very minimum to see any real results.
Not to mention the extra stress your putting on your compressor valves.
Waste of time.
Trenton's Email
Hmmm, You obviously don't
Hmmm, You obviously don't know much about A/C. Why a condensor twice the size? The gas has to evaporate in the evaporator for it to absorb heat. that's why it's called an Evaporator. the Condensor is then suppose to return the gas to a liquid state, hence the name condensor. HQ -WB Holdens will work ok with LPG providing you install a thermostat that turns the compressor off at -2 degrees. Pressures are a lot lower with LPG than R134a. I used to use the HC12a from OZ-Tech and it worked so well I never went back to R134a. HC12a is a gas that is hydrocarbon based and uses propane and butane. Anyhow, Compressors last much longer because of ther lower pressures, LPG does not react with Moisture and any oil can be used in the compressor. R12 is corrosive when mixed with moisture and Mineral Oil must be used. R134a also turns corrosive and must be used with Synthetic oil.
HC12a - LPG as refrigerant
The statement "Pressures are lot lower with LPG than R134a" is erroneous simply because you have used the term "LPG" and not being more specific.
LPG in Australia can be 100% Propane, or 50% Propane / 50% Butane, or anywhere in between.
This changes things significantly. Compared to R12, Propane will have almost twice as much evaporator pressure and one and a half times the condensor pressure.
Since the condenser discharge pressure will be higher with propane (HC-290), more heat will need to be removed in order to bring the pressure down to an acceptable value. This may require a larger condenser.
Butane/propane mixtures will have different PT characteristics. HC12a (which I suspect is a mixture of about 45% Propane and 55% Isobutane, has very similar PT characteristics to R12. The actual composition of HC12a is still kept secret by OZ Tech.
Note that Isobutane is not a component of LPG. It is still C4H10, but has a different molecular structure.
Brett.
LPG as refrigerant
Gee, how did i miss an old post.
Your too dam good Brett.
Oh, & Holden Fan
Special blends designed to replace R12 or R134a i have no doubt will work.
I still stand by my original statement on LPG.
Next, im going to be told R410a works in a car AC system :-)
Incase everyone is wondering. Have i tried LPG as a refrigerant, the answer is NO, but i have seen it done,
it DID NOT WORK.
Trenton's Email
I enquired about this and
I enquired about this and was told the commercial gas with LPG only contains about 10% lpg.
johnperth
Only 10% LPG in LPG??
Whats the rest of it? Nitrogen? I'm guessing you meant to say butane. From what I've read it actually varies from place to place or even season to season. Even still 10% is the lowest concentration I've ever heard of. Anyway the batch I have is working fine in my skyline, *touch wood*.
This is what happens when LPG is used as refrigerant....
http://www3.fire.org...
Regards
email HZCambridge@oldholden.com
How cool
And if your having a bbq and run short back up the HQ i like the way you think...
LPG rerigerant
LPG works in anything that runs R12,R134a,R22,r404a r502 with no changes to the system or oil.
You will get about 30% more grunt when dropping pure propane ( r290 ) into r12 and r134 systems but pertrol station grade propane is up to 30% butane with 70% propane which is a perfect match for car aircons.
There generally are no issues even if you drop pure propane into a system designed for r134 as the condensor pressure never get very high due to the gas's ability to release heat from itself more efficiently. Generally the ocupant in the car gets too cold and reduces the fan speed thus reducing the load further on the condenser.
Ah!! you might say there fore the whole system will turn to a block of ice, but this doesnt happen as the thermostat will cycle the compressor off or the low pressure switch will kick in.
LPG does not just explode into flames because the condensor is hot. This cannot happen as the flash point requires a much higher temp than can ever be achieved by the aircon system even if the HP switch is by passed.
Any how there is just typically 500grams of propane in the system. If yoy ride in a taxi are you woried there is a 50kg tank of propane behind yor back rest and its as hot as 60 deg c if the cab is parked in the sun in summer.
If you want to save cost or enjoy DIY LPG is a very good solution for your car or home AC.
Obvious leaks should need to be fixed first if you are sensible and a risk assesment needs to be done for your installation.
lpg as car a/c
Hi How do you fill up the a/c system with lpg
lpg as car a/c
Hi How do you fill up the a/c system with lpg
LPG as an Aircon gas
Forget it.
If you get a leak on the indoor side eg from the evaperator, the gas leaks out over night, you open the car door in the morning. Guess what car explodes due to spark fromm door switch. No more car maybe no more you. There have been many LPG explosions of plumbers vans due to leaking lpg bottles. It just takes the correct air gas ratio and a spark even static. Then Bang.
Retired Refrig Mech.
thease guys coverd it all, i
thease guys coverd it all, i don't pretend all of it but the stuff about cars going bang is very straight forward.
www.hychill.com.au/p...
can u use a dye in lpg aircon to check for leaks?
Hello,
Ive gassed my car aircon with LPG (70% propane and 30%butane here in Holland).
Works great. But about a week afterwards the system is almost empty. I cannot locate the leak easely.
Can i add a dye to the system.
Greetz, Jules
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