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Started engine assembly

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Hi all,

Finally some actual progress to report on.
Started assembling the motor today, all I got done this arvo was the crank in. Tool a lot of stuffing around getting the rear main in properly. But now that's done hopefully get the pistons and cam in in the next couple of days.

Cheers
James

Comments

About [Naughty Pottyword]ing time.

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I made 2 mistakes putting mine back together I will warn you of. The conrod Bearings are only supposed to go on one way. If you put them the wrong way around, the engine will be really hard to turn over. I thought it was the rear main grabbing for ages i was trimming it until I realised.

Rookie Mistake 2: Put the Head gasket on the right way!! I did it late at night, got the whole motor together, started it and water pissed out the back.

Best of luck. I also suggest adding a Zinc Additive to your Run-in oil in, it protects the cam and lifters.

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______________
[http://gallery.oldho...|Cuddy's Shed]

Studs on the main caps hey?
Do you do them up to the same torque as you would bolts?

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______________________________________________
[http://gallery.oldho...|me shed...]

Will make sure all goes in the right way around Ashley.

Yea main and head studs going in this time. Probably should have put a girdle in aswell but only thought of it the other day and apparently I won't need it. Time will tell lol.
Yea same torque. 75ft/pounds.

Cheers
James

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Keep everything clean!!!!!

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Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

I know you wont forget!

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She was just a whiskey maker, but I loved her still.

[http://gallery.oldho...|toybox]

Won't forget. Just don have one yet. Will be getting one from ASR when I order my sump.

Cheers
James

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Good to see some progress James :) . I have built a few tough sixes over the years including a couple of 320+hp alloy head versions and I'll part with a secret trick for you to get maximum hp!. Just before you put the sump on pour a can of whoopass over the crank and rods etc and it's instant hp !.It's a secret trick, don't tell anyone else!.

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Cheers,
John.

Hahaha love it, won't tell anyone ;)

My mates currently building himself a 6 for his LC. He's aiming for over 350hp n/a. Quite a little beast he's got brewing. I recon he will do it. Ill stick to my goal of 200 at wheels but lol. Don't have the wallet for much more.

Cheers
James

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James I like your build so far. A very good bottom end as you have gives you the flexibility to go more radical or pull more revs if needed at a later stage of modification.I have a mate here in Tassie that dyno'd his Phil Irving headed 202 at 361 hp quite a few years back now and it was still a carbied engine(triple 55mm webers)and had points ignition! so your mates 350hp is definitely achievable but will cost big $$$.Looking forward to future updates, keep up the good work young fella.

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Cheers,
John.

John, yea that was the idea behind my bottom end, it's a bit overkill but better overkill than under kill. With the combo I have we r expecting to make peak power around 7500rpm. Unlike the mast motor which i was scared to rev past 6000, i will be revving this till it stops making power so if it makes power at 8000 ill rev it to 8000 lol. If it kills it self then may it RIP because I won be doing this all over again. Wallet doesn't like it. Lol

Yea he is running a Jzed head, and making his own sheet metal manifold from scratch. Same custom grind cam as me, same ICE ignition as me so I can see his 350 happening hope he does anyway its going to be pretty awesome. Ill be stoked if I make 200 at wheels lol

Cheers
James

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I still have this rare Heron head from 1971 Its for sale at the right price

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Whilst we're confessing to Rookie Mistakes.... First motor I built (a 245 Hemi 6) had the spring missing from the pressure relief valve in the oil pump (Are Holden Oil Pumps similar?), so when I went to start it for the first time, it would pick up the oil and then send it straight out the 'non-springed' valve! That brought me untold hours of joy fixing that.

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Why helical timing gears?

What induction?

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I did notice that too Ben but not really sure what James is running cam/head / spring pressure wise.I have stripped alloy helical gears with some not very radical spring pressures in the past .Straight cuts are annoying and noisy for the street but the peace of mind is worth it.

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Cheers,
John.

Also the helicals load the cam thrust plate forward and backwards with acceleration and deceleration such as people tend to do during burnout competitions.

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Oil pressure will hold it still.

I just hope the kid hogged out the galleries and drain backs through the lifter boss.

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Helical gears are going, we just didn't get a
Puller in time they coming off before we go any further and some Straight cuts are Going on definitely.

Cheers
James

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I never noticed them to be noisy on my old Motor to be honest. What sort of Noise do they normally make that makes them Obvious?

Cheers
James

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they dont make any noticable noise if its a performance engine with larger than stock exhaust.

all these old wives tales about noisy straight cuts is from people who have heard v8 dual idler setups IMO.

before hq racing engines were allowed straight cut gears there used to be a fair few dramas with cam plates breaking, the repeated downshifting to 2nd for engine braking was believed to be a major contributing factor. since straight cuts have been commonplace failures with the thrust plates are rare.

definitley use steel straight cuts though, not the alloy's...

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That makes sense then as I couldn't hear anything on my old motor. I will definitely be running them though and they are steel ones. Same Crow ones off my old motor.

Hoping to finish assembly tomorrow night now. Last 2 nights haven't been able to do anything and neither tonight.

Cheers
James

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Noisy straight cut gears on a six is definitely not an old wives tale !. It depends on the brand and quality of the product(eg tolerences) as to how loud they can be. I have used harrop ones that had no noise, romac that were definitely noticeable and a set made by masterstroke engineering ( guys who used to do the ford crank conversions) that you could hear before you could see the vehicle!.Heres a link to a video with a set of romac ones, if you can't hear the whirring sound your probably tone deaf!.

http://youtu.be/f-6f...

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Cheers,
John.

That sounds great in my opinion. Don't mind the whirring to be honest. But similar to a gimlet kit but not quite as nice. Still sounds bloody tough with it without the whirring.

Cheers
James

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Yeh I agree James they don't sound too bad if they aren't too noisy like the romac ones in the vid but the set I had in a street car were twice as loud as that set, they become very tedious after a while!.

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Cheers,
John.

Sometimes Hugh says something notable.
At high RPM as you appear to heading for. You run the risk of a rocker cover full of oil and none down the bottom.

Make sure the oil drains are opened up and even consider external drains.
Ask someone with high rpm, red six experience.

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Phil
2570

Naw, thanks Phil. Love you too.

XOXOXO.

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Definitely open up and chamfer any oil drain back areas but the most effective way is not to let excessive oil get to the top end in the first place!. I am guessing here but just judging by the revs James is aiming for I guess he is going for a solid lifter cam ?. I always run the edge orifice speed pro type lifter which has restricted oil flow designed to prevent excessive oil to the valve train area and also has machined areas on the side of the lifter to help oil flow around the lifter and help it spin more freely preventing galling and scoring in the lifter gallery. Pretty sure they are part no 840R or 842R but I'm old so my memory is r/s so you may have to google them.

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Cheers,
John.

Cheers mate yea it's a big custom grind solid cam from cam tech. My mate got my cam and lifters for me so not sure what type of lifters he got to be honest. I was meant to debur all the drain backs etc like said but completely forgot about it till The other night when it was to late. Will see how we go, may regret that bit of forgetfulness lol but see how I go.

Cheers
James

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Ol' Philly Boy's on the money lad. The way you're thinking, is stupid.

If you think you're not going to rev this little [Naughty Pottyword]ter, you're wrong. You're only kidding yourself. That little piece of [Naughty Pottyword] is gunna sing, so you'll let it. Trust me.

You've spent some serious coin and time so far. Another 10 - 15 hours to do a bit of grinding, blending and a touch of polishing, WILL help keep that thing alive. All at zero cost.

There's a few of us older [Naughty Pottyword]s here that know this [Naughty Pottyword] inside and out. Yeah it sounds cliche, but, we been doing this crap before you were born lad. We know what works, but most importantly, what doesn't. One of the best ways to learn is by your mistakes. Learning by others mistakes is far more economical though. Listen and learn, as well as do and learn.

Think kid.

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Read this. http://oldjohnno.id....

It's been posted, read, shared a thousand times before. It works. Again, another old [Naughty Pottyword] that's talking from experience. Listen and learn lad.

Also,

Blend all passages in the std pump
Remove and plug the oil filter bypass with a welsh plug. Pien the plug over.
Blend and chamfer the drain holes between the lifter bores. Also hog 'em out with the die grinder.
The drain hole in the front from the E1 lifter to the timing gears needs to be lowered, blended and enlargened.
Remove and plug the oil spray to the timing gears, only if you done that ^^^^^^^
Score the front cam bearing from the oil passage to the cam thrust plate.
Tear drop the bolt boss for the side plate bolts and polish the casting in that area. No need to polish the whole area behind side plates, that's just wasting time. Just where the oil drains back.
Hog out and blend the drains in the head.
If running guide plates, (which you should be) drill out push rod holes in head.

That should keep you going. I'll add more as I think of them.

Don't be a lazy [Naughty Pottyword]er. Do it properly.

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Thanks Hugh appreciate the help and advice but I don't have the tools to do it so it means more money has to be spent. Money I don't have at this point in time. In struggling to get it back going as it is. And time I don't have either. It's hard enough getting my motor assembled with my mate as it is because he's so busy. We still haven't got it finished.
Ill probably regret it mate but I'm just going to leave it. Thanks for the advice and when it blows up you can all say I told you so lol.

Cheers
James

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Dislike button.

Emhugh.

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Lol u been hanging around emu to much

Cheers
James

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Who said that?

lolerOrp

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Cheers,

Emu

O.H.T.C. original member

"Will see how we go, may regret that bit of forgetfulness lol but see how I go. "

Even by just saying it you get a bad feeling.
Backtrack and fix it NOW.

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Phil
2570

not using old school thick oils helps a lot though, used to see problems when guys insist on straight 50, 25/70 and such, modern thinner oils do drain back much better when up to temp. personally i use 10/30 or 10/40 in my hq race motors.

we are not allowed to modify any of the drainbacks or add extra drainbacks in hq racing, yes our revs are only max 6000 but they are at high revs for a long time in races.

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Will be leaving it now. To late. If it breaks it breaks will fix it then lol

Ill keep that in mind Ben. It's only going to see peak revs down the quarter so with the new sump should have plenty of oil to feed it for that long. It's not going to see the pad very often and when it does I will put a bit extra in and keep the revs lower. Should I run thinner oil for burnouts or thicker? Either way ill probably break something lol it's burnouts, stuff always break.

Cheers
James

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