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Fact or Myth?

interested in actual experiences...I've read various statements and articles suggesting that the emission controls introduced on the red engines in the HX series "strangled engine performance"..and the introduction of improvements with the blue engines managed to recover to pre pollution performance. What complicates things is how power and torque was measured and specified as well. Def some of the controls would limit performance when engine cold. Has anyone actual experience of comparing apples with apples eg a HJ sedan with same size engine, gearbox and diff ratio and then had an Hx or HZ and can categorically say there was a notable difference? I've had red pre and post pollution and blue...but different capacities, diffs and vehicle types so hard to compare...one car I did have was a HX 202 trimatic van - stock and at the time that car went really well..a mate had a HQ 202 trimatic sedan and mine would leave him for dead...my brother in law had a HX Statesman in the day and his mate had a HJ Statesman - both stock and the HJ left the HX for dead...so just got me wondering????

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I've found that the blokes who had the "freak" cars that went so much better than other identical cars were the blokes who maintained their cars and kept them in good running order.
The blokes with the "dogs" never did a thing to them.
As for performance and fuel economy, my father had a 202 trimatic HX wagon that did 400,000km over 4 years and never missed a beat. It was replaced with a 202 trimatic VC wagon that went nowhere near as good as the HX and was much heavier on fuel.
The blue motors were considered another step backwards.
I had mates who did their apprenticeships working on HQ, J, X, Holdens and they said the fuel consumption went up when ADR27 and 27A came in, and the performance went down, and got worse with each new model.
David

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Old is good.

how does a car do 100,000km year ? Was the oldman ever home?
maybe when a bloke would open the point gap weekly, rarely hear of the freak motor now? Or was the freak motor all ways just a story?
What would win the standing 1/4 a hq or a hz both 6 cylinder sedans trimatic?

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one comparison - according to Automobile catalogue (simulations)
74 HJ trimatic sedan 3.3 3.08 diff
135 Hp SAE Gross - derived to be 18.2Kg/KW net
Top speed 161km/hr, 1/4 mile 19 sec, 21.6mpg
78 HZ Trimatic sedan 3.3 3.08 diff
95 Hp (DIN) - derived to be 19.7kg/Kw net
Top speed 154 km/hr, 1/4 mile 20.1 sec, 20.3mpg

probably for average driving experience it's better to consider 0-100km/hr and overtaking time 80-120Km/hr
in those cases HJ 13.7 and 11.1 sec and HZ is 16.1 and 14.8...so based on that suggests quite a distinct difference..enough to be really noticed..the HZ would handle much better though with RTS.

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Andrew

Company car.
He used to start at 5 every morning and was rarely home before 6. Saturdays he started at 5, usually home about 2.
Then used it as a family as well.
He drove to Homebush abbatiors every morning to buy meat then spent the day travelling between butcher shops all over Sydney, and up to Katoomba, did a Wollongong trip for two years as well. 3 days a week.
So the miles racked up.
I think his best company car was a 186 powerglide HR wagon.
David

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Old is good.

HJ didn’t have all the pollution crap like the HZ lol
Than again HQ had none 😁
As for fuel economy, well buy a 4cyl jap car lol
And power wise, I’ve seen plenty of 6cly toe small caravans, boats and trailers
A lot of people did the 186 head change and Holley and extra and exhaust OR they did A 253 V8
Long live the HJ Prem 😎

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As I always say
Stay safe all
Regards Dazza

"just my 2cents worth"

"were going to need a bigger shed"
trippled75@yahoo.com.au

Does anyone know if trimatics (traumatic) used more hp to run it compared to hydra/power glides? I agree the best tranny for a 186 is a powerglide awesome combo! The freak engines fix their charcoal. My 186S is a top shelf enviro-friendly car because it has all the fuel go in it and all the exhaust emissions fire out the back so push it along with wind assist as I'm gliding from first to second gear at 50 mph :)

Donno

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Donno

except transmissions:
HT 186 Kingswood powerglide 0-100 =15.5sec 1/4 mile - 19.8 sec
HG 186 Kingswood Trimatic 0-100 =13.4sec 1/4 mile - 18.9 sec
so that suggests more losses and more impact on performance with the powerglide - ignores durabilty, reliabilty and robustness for upgrades..

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Andrew

Happy days.

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You've been stitched!😉

Email me
HOLDEN DOCTOR

which had a closed type positive crankcase ventilation system as per HJ to reduce the emission of unburned crankcase hydocarbons :-)

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Andrew

Does that mean the HJ rules again 😎

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As I always say
Stay safe all
Regards Dazza

"just my 2cents worth"

"were going to need a bigger shed"
trippled75@yahoo.com.au

except for handling! the Hzs were good to drive in that respect...earlier models were "jelly wagons"..
ps - would it be fair to say that the best of the HQ-WB series was in fact the WB? Whaddddyareckon...I think so :-)

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Andrew

If I had the money for another old Holden, it would have to be a V8 HZ Premier wagon.
Preferably the red one Arthur Hayward built.
David

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Old is good.

The WB was a luxury Statesman comfort and style I will admit
But how many were made ?
I recon more HJs were made,
there were 176 202 HJ models made 😎

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As I always say
Stay safe all
Regards Dazza

"just my 2cents worth"

"were going to need a bigger shed"
trippled75@yahoo.com.au

quantity with quality...from memory there was about 60,000 WBs produced...about 14,000 were Statesmans...roughly 10,000 Devilles, 4000 Caprices..and a about a hundred Brock Magnums ...have no idea how many HJ Statesman's were made..I'm thinking a bit less as they were produced over a shorter time...just a guess though...the WB seems to be unloved :-(

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Andrew

To me and it’s just my thought, the WB Statesman looks more like a Chev Cadillac ?
And I think that’s why it didn’t really take off, it looks like a large long car and the fact that Holden had a new model coming out the VB comy

A lot of people used them as a parts upgrade fo there panel vans

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As I always say
Stay safe all
Regards Dazza

"just my 2cents worth"

"were going to need a bigger shed"
trippled75@yahoo.com.au

was produced concurrent with the VC/VH...it filled a gap - providing commercials and long wheel base luxury which the commodore didn't have..overall numbers are not inconsistent with previous models taking into account the models available ...I think Holden would have made a good profit from the WB Statesman...it had a small development cost being based on HQ-HZ, incorporating stuff from the VC and the sales price was quite high - way out of the reach of the average punter at the time...so for the company it was prob a good earner...agree it had quite an American style...I think at the time they were polarising...people ever loved them or hated them...one thing for sure is they were unique and had a lot of presence and really distinguished themselves from the other models and that was something the high end buyer wanted...the later Calais and the Statesman introduced in the VN series failed to do that...if you want someone to part with twice as much cash as the base model it's gotta be able to stand out...

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Andrew

Ah, the VN Statesman stood out alright...sadly for the wrong reasons.

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Bryan

How about all those thousands of WB commercials? I had the last of the '84? vans, probably the best Old Holden I ever owned (I have only had 23 of them)!!

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"If your car has quarter vents, a diff at the back, and was available with wind-down windows, you may talk to me.
Otherwise I am not interested. Amen."

Sure they are, all the HQ-WB Ute owners (and vanners)love ‘em for the front ends/nose cones

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Bryan

only problem is it's pushed the price of a good headlight up to eye watering levels...often people are asking in the $600 to $1200 range each for a very good or NOS one...OUCH!

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Andrew

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