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M21 gear box query

hi i need some help please as i have a little dillema with my m21...
the imput shaft is fine with the2 lines on the end but the cluster gear/ counter gear does not end in 899 as i thought it should .
the cluster gear is 9939484 does any one out there know what this is?? all help much appreciated thanks liswar

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my input shaft has 2 rings , but the cluster gear is not 899 its 9939484 whats the 484 from can any one help please.
thanks in advance

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The 484 cluster is from the optional XU1/L34 box with 2.32/1.65/1.25/1.00 ratios.

Very rare.

Dr Terry

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thanks for the info Dr Terry would it be possible for you to point me in the right direction as to where i might find some litreature on this please...
thanks warren..

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Hi warren

There isn't much literature on these, other than bits & pieces that I've compiled over time.

You could try this site:- http://www.monaropar...

Dr Terry

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I can't directly answer your question but there's some info here ...

http://gallery.oldho...

HQ_SS posted up his web address, I'll try to find it for you. He may know.

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T

My Shed

Holdenpaedia, they're the brakes Mate.

Here's HQ_SS' email address from his signature ...

HQSS@Oldholden.com

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T

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Holdenpaedia, they're the brakes Mate.

Hi Warren..
If you can post or email me the date code and or the serial number on the main casing
of your box I should be able to tell you roughly when it was made.
Therefore giving you a little bit more information on it.
If you are not sure where to look for the date code and serial number have a look [http://gallery.oldho...|Here] and [http://gallery.oldho...|Here]
If you pull the box down at all I would be really interested in the other part numbers on the parts in it to.
Cheers Paul.

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hi Paul,
well the serial number is T738650 and the date code is well gone as there is nothing decipable there so can not confirm the casing for the torana body which is a 73 LJ GTR XU-1 4/73 8D11P
above the word holden is the number 7 but the case ahs been painted along the way as well,
apart from a bit of artline words on the face being written ,

L70U
20 input
24 cluster
when it gets a recon i will then have all the ratio,s,.
thanks warren

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Thanks Warren.
The date code missing from around that serial number seems to be common thing.
From what identifiable cases I have around that I can tell you the housing is
between T 723645 which is a 13L5 13th November 1975 casting and a T 758486 27G6 27th July 1976 casting.
So very roughly I would put it as from a February 1976 time frame.
The 7 I suspect is a time of casting code.

This was posted on GMH torana today about this cluster as well.

Nice rare find there. The standard XU-1 box isn't an M21 either, and i'm really not sure what to call the box you have. Traditionally I suppose it should be called the L34 box, but the XU-1 6cyl version pre-dates it. So I suppose what you have is a very rare 6cyl M21. Not something many people alive today would ever have seen with their own eyes.
My advice would be to put the cluster and input shaft away and don't use them, and buy yourself a repro XU-1 cluster, XU1 input shaft and an M20 3rd gear OR an XU-1 input and an M21 cluster. If you do pull it apart can you PLEASEEEEEEE get the part number off the reverse gear for me? I'm dying to know whether it's an M21 V8 reverse gear or an M20/M22/XU-1 reverse gear.

Going by that they are a very rare cluster now days.

If anyone else has any other date codes and serial numbers off any 3 and 4 spd Aussie box,s they can send my way I would really appreciate them.
Cheers Paul.

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Warren I do not have a date code and serial number to match your Xu1's codes but I have
some to give you a rough date and serial number to work against.
G242 24th July 1972 is a T400191
7F3 7th June 1973 is a T498827
So between them there are 98636 3 and 4 spd cases cast so very roughly 8966 per month.
I then have
15F3 15th of June 1973 T499901
which means 1074 in 8 days
then I have
19F3 19th of June 1973 T501925 (This was from a 7/73 build Xu1)
so 2024 in 4 days.
But I think these will end up the same as engine date codes so roughly a couple of weeks to a month before your build date should be about the correct date coded housing for you car.
Cheers Paul.

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thanks for all the great info ,
i am happy with the box that i thought was not an original set up and thanks to every one who assisted with all the good info,
the MonaroParts.com was also a very informative link i was sent .
thanks again to all warren

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Info for decoding please ,
Thx wazza

AttachmentSize
Image icon M21 info 227.12 KB
Image icon M21 info301.35 KB
Image icon M21 info191.59 KB
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Hi,
I have a 30 F 3 box here which I think is my original box for the 16th Aug 73 ex Police XU-1, This box has the 899 cluster and original two piece reverse.

This be about six weeks lag time, I have found that if a XU-1 was made in early ( Feb Mar )73 it had a genuine 72 engine date code making that 8 - 10 weeks lag due to Christmas production slow down.( Don't have box number )
Then with my late production 73 XU-1 they seemed to have only produced limited numbers of special XU-1 parts like the extractors, rods, heads, boxes, carbies etc, and I have heard for the Setember 73 XU-1's they actually ran out of some special parts, this was of course non compliant to CAMS rules at this time.
While time lags are usually about a month for between engine date cast dates to finished XU-1 and "S" models my 8 / 73 GTR is a different case as it has a 16 G 3 engine date and a 5th of August M20 box and it was finished on the 13th of August 73.
I will have more information on the GTR and XU-1 boxes if you are interested.

Many of the Aug 73 Engine engine dates were 16 G 3 but there actually seems to be three different dates 6 G 3, 16 G 3 and a posible 27 G 3, with a 9 H 3 for late August and September 73 models.

mike81973

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I must admit I have not looked in to the Xu1 side of things but I do know that with the HQ SS's the dates of some engines can move around heaps.
I have engine numbers listed that are consecutive but have almost a months difference in the cars completion date.
I also have a SS with a E102 10/5/72 cast engine with a 24/8/72 build.
The other thing that changes things a little bit more is which plant the engine was fitted at.
From memory the closest I have is 10 days from casting to completion of vehicle date.

I would be interested in the serial numbers from your boxs as I have 7F3 15F3 and 19F3
details and there is a 1074 serial number difference between the first two in around 8 days and 2024 between the second two in around 4 days.
Cheers Paul.

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Hi Paul,
Glad to contact someone who knows what he is talking about.
My GTR box 5 H 3, T518299 was from engine 3793** 16 G 3 , it was completed on the 13th August 1973.

My XU-1 box is 30 F 3, T 505135 was mated to engine 3892** this was completed a few days later in August 1973.

To put it into more context I have;

A 1 2 T 366613 3 Sp, hard to read might be wrong.
blank T 368365 4 Sp M21 V8
E 9 2 T 375402 4 Sp M22
L 24 2 T 438856 3 Sp
30 F 3 T 505135 4 Sp M21 6 cyl XU-1
5 H 3 T 518299 4 Sp M20 6 Cyl GTR
6 E 4 T 602851 4 Sp

I could probably do with a August or September 74 housing for the October 74 Monaro, will have to ask Holden for the manufacture date, but this is not a pirority at the moment.

mike81973

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Thanks Mike.
Those details are very much appreciated.
The only one that doesn't match up is the A12 one but I only have one to compare it too at that time.
B222 22/2/72 T352113
before that I have F211 21/6/71 T280987
so a big gap in between and then now I have your M22 box that helps fill in between
a gap I had before.
I notice in your other post you say that it still has the two piece reverse gear in it.
I did not realize that they ran them for that long I had suspected that they were phased
out when the swapped from the smooth case box,s to the ribbed case box,s.
But I must admit I have not really tried to pin them down to a date with that side of things as yet.
I have noted a few box,s for the smooth case/ribbed case information but they seem to have the same casting numbers from the couple of details I have on them.
Which makes it a little bit harder to sort out.
What I was told was that the Early (with split reverse idler) 2813505 case was LC, LJ, Early HQ
Then the Late 2829795 case was Late HQ, early HJ, LH, LX but more of what I have seen have been the one piece reverse idler set up than the two piece ones.
I will have to pull my G 24 2 box apart and have a look at what that one is.

Have you had access to the Vin information for your Torana's and have you had a look through the Parts books for the other diff part numbers you were looking for
Or are you looking for the complete assembly part numbers.
If you need either of these items (Vin Parts book) send me a email as I maybe able to
help you out with them.
Cheers Paul.

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Hi Paul,
The diff assembly doesn't seem to appear in the parts book as you could only buy a diff in parts from what I can tell.
Parts books, now there is a story in those on their own but I will try to keep it short.
At the end of each model it would seem that there is little incentive to make them right, as a new model will soon replace it!
I have a 1920's Buick parts book for a second series model and it was like that then!!

The late 1973 parts book printed June 1975 has many mistakes in several areas, I have been compiling a list!

One of the most blatent is the fact that most if not all of the Adelaide built 1973 LJ Toranas had a lighter version of the starter and alternator, these were Lucas NOT BOSCH as listed in the parts book!!!!!!!!
The parts book also only lists replacement parts for one type of CD carbie but there were two types listed for the Bathurst 72 right through to the end of 1973 XU-1's on the build sheets.

With the two piece reverse Holden tended to follow common sense aproaches to their parts and where possible tried to tie parts changes to model changes, if I was to make a guess I would say the two piece reverse was replaced at the end of the LJ Torana and similarly at the end of the HQ.
It is not difficult to bore out the housing of an earlier housing and fit the later reverse shaft and this is done from time to time.
I am now trying to keep three speed housings to machine for four speed incase they get harder to get.

I have a smooth case three speed I will try to get the numbers for you.

I have all the Vin discs and the parts books, thank you for asking.

The engine componets had their own identification with a printed square box and the code inside, I have seen this on crankshafts, rocker covers, flywheels and timing covers. This is likely to be the information on the engine tags near the fuel pumps.

mike81973

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Hi Paul, I have dug out that smooth case three speed box for you.
The date is G 6 0 ( July 6th 1970 )and serial number
T 180307, The remarkable thing about this box is despite being in the weather for many years and all siezed up, the vehicle broadcast sheet code is still readable! it is RD.
I have not looked at it much before but now notice that it is different in a few areas to the later updated ribed case;
The reverse bulge stops before the rear face of the housing and the bottom rear hole is drilled out for a drain plug, these were obviously modified when the case was redesigned to suit both three speed and the four speed, with a slight machined difference.
I have been looking a bit further at the engine componet marking system of a square stamp with a code number, most engine parts seem to have had these.

I can be contacted on mikeirenest@activ8.n...

mike81973

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Thanks Mike.
Email sent
Cheers Paul.

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Hi, I was wondering if anyone can tell what the three didgit stamped distributor numbers on Holdens relate to, I know the numbers increase numerically from HK to HZ but nothing more that I can worked out from the parts books.
I have a 8/73 XU-1 and I am looking for the correct numbers.

Hope someone can help?
mike81973

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For decoding please
Thx wazza

AttachmentSize
Image icon Input shaft218.12 KB
Image icon Info from recon 209.85 KB
Image icon Serial number282.05 KB
Image icon Xu1 / SLR. Code 301.35 KB
Image icon Recon box232.33 KB
Image icon 4 replaced parts ...242.95 KB
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Here are the 4 gear info

AttachmentSize
Image icon image.jpeg209.85 KB
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