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never heard off a 179 hp

I can get a 179hp red engine very cheap , but have never heard of them. just wondering if any one might know any thing about them and what they where like. thanks.

p.s great site keep it up

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It is simply an early 179. It is no different to any other 179/186.

Cheers...Dave
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Cheers...Dave

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I belive they were an option on the EH's.

"Bundy and Sterlings, who would've thought that would be a good combination?"

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Stupid Aprentice Question #73: "How would you turbocharge a turbine engine?"

Hi Guys.

Before this gets out of hand (which every discussion about HP blocks usually does) I'll throw in my 2 cents worth.

There is nothing special or different about the 179HP engine. All EHs with 179s (up to around Oct '64) have this block casting. After that date the blocks were cast '179', with no changes. When the red motor first came out the 149 blocks had no casting ID & the 179 were cast HP, probably for 'High Performance' which they certainly had when compared with the 149.

Yes, they had forged steel cranks, but so did every other Holden 6 up to April '67. (Greys & the 149/161/179/186)

Yes, they had slightly thicker cylinder walls than the 186, well of course they did, because they used the same casting moulds, but the 186 is bored slightly further. The 179 & 186 have the same maximum overbore limit of .060" resulting in a 192 ci motor.

If looking for a motor to modify these days, you're much better off with a later red or blue. These early castings are now a bit rusty in the water jacket & are probably best left to the guys who want originality for there old EH.

Dr Terry.

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Hi Dr. Terry, that would be great in the holdenpedia FAQ page, would you link it (or similar) in there or i could if you don't mind?

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there are no stupid questions only stupid people

Ho 70ute.

Yes, that's OK, I don't mind anybody copying or using my stuff. But please, leave my name on it so people know where it comes from.

Dr Terry.

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I thought the first 179HP came out when Holden released it's new model the HR,and it was in the x2 models?

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Good stuff DR Terry!
Now thats the sort of informative info I come here for!... Just when you think you have leant everything about Holden 6s - you come along and add some more! ... I now know what I suspected all along about 179s and HP motors... But didnt know that HP was the early block (Which I have one of these in good order...).
Keep the gems coming Terry... How about some info on LHD early Holdens and the current likely whereabouts of some? Any Ideas? I have your book that points out they started build LHD with the EK - but I have yet ever to see pics of one.
Cheers streetneat...Andrew...
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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

Hi Andrew,

Isn't there a picture of a LHD EK in Greece in the "History of Holden since 1917" book? From memory, the car in the pic was a dark red colour with a white roof.

My copy of the book is back in Perth so I can't check ATM.

Cheers...Dave
>E-mail Me!
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Hi Guys.

They actually started making LHD Holdens in mid-1960 during the FB series model run.

Dr Terry.

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DR get your facts right the only EH s with hp block were those with automatics (hydramatic) the reason for this was Holden recieved the contract again to supply RSL taxis with their entire fleet due largely to their success with the FJ & EK s the steel crank was introduced to enable much higer milage and reliability rates between rebuilds( they also used them in the S4 racing EH )to enable redline at Bathurst for 7-9 hrs at a time stop doling out drosas to people who really need good advice . if you have ever driven a Hydramatic holden second gear changes operate 1:1 and the sudden rev drop placed quite a strain on cranks a lesson learnt from the EKs,so the forged crank was introduced

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I am standing by what DR Terry has posted first at it is correct. All Holdens had steel cranks. HP is just the early designation for EH's and 179 stampings came along later - as were fitted to HD's.
You shoot your mouth off b4 you get yor facts right and DR Terry has based his facts on Archives to the best of my knowledge.
I think its obvious as to who is a more plausible source.
Cheers Dave.

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dave it apears you are under the doctors spell i too have archival evidence not from holden but from the scottish foundry that forged the cranks(no holden did not have the capability) holden has quite often thrown a dummie ie horse pwr figures, build numbers, specification and i dont need to justify it to self apointed experts dig a little deeper into the subject and the truth will reveal its self ,i am a retired engine reconditioner of over 45 years exp. i have lost count of how many of these experts ive met over the years (usually 1 model car club wankers) as ive stated any 179 or 186 that is not a hp or 186s fitted with a steel crank has been done so aftermarket usually at engine shops request as cast cranks have failed ,you can believe what you want but i know the facts and like i said he is not knowledgable enough to be handing out his opinions will nilly when it is so much crap! do you think i made it all up just to waste your time Ps i was the head engine man on the dunstan rotory valve head greys youve all heard about and yes we did get 290hp from a grey that would rev to 8500rpm but had trouble with the mains splitting happy daze you dreamers!thats a clue as to who i am those with the real holden knowlege will find me easily,and i still have the dies!

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We would certainly be interested in the scans of the documents. If you are prepared to offer them up you can email me them (rusty at oldholden.com) or just post them up on the board if you don;t mind them being public. Any information is welcome and by the sounds of it would go into the Holdenpedia section.
http://www.oldholden...

dunstan rotory valve head greys....that sounds like a whole other subject !
Misinformation is a bad thing, two sides to a story is better than one if this is all that is left.
Thanks

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surely the above reply will put this debate to rest. i have owned and built approx 20 red , blue and black sixes over the years and the only one that had a steel crank was a 179 hp and have seen one in a reco shop that was also steel and out of a 186 s ( as stated above ). if dr terry and foes can't tell the difference lightly tap the counterweight with a hammer and compare the ring of a steel crank to the dull thud of a cast item . owned two unmolested eh's both late 63 models , both with original engines. they were both clearly stamped 179 not hp , how is that so if all 179's were stamped hp until mid 64 ? more uninformed crap. mate if you worked on the dunstan rotary heads you should be on display in a museum with them , especially compared to other technology of the day they were amazing !. proof of great aussie ingenuity at its best . ps hope they had one of those standaed grey motor steel cranks dr terry mentioned . lol

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what a load of crap it even states in the gmh workshop manuals that all grey motors had steel cranks, and also all red motors until april 67 had the steel crankshaft. and yes all EHs with a 179 were marked with HP and the engine no was prefixed with m not 179f like the HD 179 engine if your ehs were marked with 179 they are not original. and also i have 2 149's that were unopened from factory with the original steel cranks. and also the 149s in the EH werent marked hence why the 179 was stamped with HP. there is no difference between HPs and 179's besides the marking and serial no etc

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Have you heard of Jack Whitbourne and the "Swamp Fox " ?
An FJ Drag car that raced at Surfers Paradise for years.
He was a grey motor Guru who had a motor doing enough to import a Moon Tacho so he could read it.

His son Peter is still racing an FJ ( Grey Motor ) and would love to talk to you

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Hi

Peter is still racing FJ, he's been doing well with the 8th mile series, racing alot at Warwick. He'll be out there on the 9th Feb giving it a run for its money - he's made some modifications so will be giving it a good go.

He'll also be racing at Sunset Strip in Mildura at Easter - looking forward to that meet.

Unfortunately Jack passed away over 10 years ago.

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on the subject of 179 ,i told you above of holdens lies above and just thought i might add i have owned personally a hr prem 283chev+powerglide FACTORY (execs personal order) & a FB factory6 fitted 186& crashbox,both cars purchased via my assosiation with the rotary valve grey testing ops (that ought to wind you know it alls up

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you have done nothing but pretend to try and be your own so called "know it all", until you have the same name at least more than once you are nothing but a narcissistic megalomaniac.
cool it, most will listen to differing (and possibly new) opinions which remain opinions until proven otherwise, as long as it's set in a non-threatening tone.... It's not hard, and i would like to hear what information you may actually have.

PS Scott Pakin may have said it better himself

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there are no stupid questions only stupid people

narcicistis meglamaniac am i thats a bit rich ill endevour to send in the info youve dissmissed me as not knowing about but as a grey beard im only just computer lit enough to post these chats!ha ill get the grandson to show me how to send/ attatch them and you can all make your own minds up!sounds to me a bit like young bull v old bull mind set but i was not saying i know every thing but just correcting commonly misunderstood conceptions of the red motor story but gee dont you sooks get all bitchy open your minds a little i might not be just stirring the pot truth is sometimes harder to believe than fiction i was there were you!!!!!!

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lol crikey for a minute there I thought this title had my name painted to it with some of the flippant comments of late by cyberspace waste of space comments hehe
I for one would love to learn more in regards to these Dunston Rotary Valve heads, I recall an article in one of my old magazines that covered the testing of one of these heads and a mate back in the late 70's was trying to track information down in regards to I believe one of these for me.
I remember names being thrown around for Grey motor heads such as Repco and I think Duggan although that may have been Dunston?
I had a fresh speedway 138 engine from a mates FC fitted to my FX and he had a few extras for the old Grey motors such as a stud girdle kit(?), it was supposed to bolt to the main bearing caps to strengthen the bottom end and stop the crank flexing itself to death, well it apparently allowed a few more revs before that took place hehe
I have a soft spot for the old Greys, they have a distinctive exhaust note that spells β€˜period perfect' for the old Humpy’s when driving down the road :{D
With the Dunstan Rotary Valve head, wasn't the hold up at the time an oiling problem or an over oiling problem?
I do recall something along those lines and it was a real shame that the Dunstan technology wasn't carried over to the Red heads so that they may have given the old Siamese port Red heads a run for their money and opened up some real potential from the earlier Holden Red sixes.
Don't be put off by sarcasm that seems be the norm with the internet and the ability to remain anonymous unfortunately.
But more so, instead of being argumentative, wouldn't it be more productive to take a leaf from Dr Terry's book and maybe offer the information to Dr Terry for his upcoming book which is touted to correct a lot of misprinting and misinformation from his first release on both his and the publishers part, that way you could abide the same ethics as Dr Terry and if he used the information along with any archival evidence you produce in regards to photographs or technical data to do with these mythical beasts, then that information would be accredited to you and your input for your assistance with sharing this information with the Australian public.
There are so many people today who do scoff at these old aftermarket performance items as being a myth because no one has come forth to share the information on these, it would be a tragedy if you took this information to the grave with you, the Rotary Valve head is more of a myth than even the ubiquitous Repco Cross flow head.
I for one would jump at the chance of buying a book that alone covered the old performance items like the Repco Cross flow heads, Dunstan Rotary Valve heads, Norman Super Chargers, Speco Thomas accessories etc, everything that covered these old engines from over boring and using sleeves in the bores from Tractors along with their pistons and mercury filled Harmonic balancers etc…
I for one ask, please, please share this information before it is lost, it would be so awesome to re-read that old article once again that covered the testing of this head from way back.
I for one hope you do share these details mate, copyright the info if you must, but don't let it die the quiet death the actual Dunstan Grey head died, please...
I am positive Dr Terry would be more than happy to sit with you and discuss the facts, I believe he would be the first to admit when he is wrong and rectify that information when someone shows him the proof in the pudding to ensure better accuracy for those of us who are more than willing to learn something new, or old if the case be...
Thinks about it mate?

Cheers, Pig (oinks308)

Email OINKS308
Link to Pigs Sty
Link to HoldenPedia

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oinks308

at last we have a believer! im not asking you to believe what i say just wat ive seen duggan & dunston heads existed only 5 dunstons produced though 3 were for hydraplane race boats ,this will give you researchers somewhere to start.the other two were built and tested on road.the mains girdle youve quoted is correct and was used to remedy the main caps tearing off the block (splitting as i said)they are similar to VL comma bottom end bearing cages.seven bearing mains were also made but at trhe rate we blew engines up it was uneconomical so the girdle was born alowing us flexibility to overload engines in tests without financial fear!
my documentation is coming and will not go to the grave with me as youve said.until it appears just wait and research "HYDROS"
thanks for a voice of reason pig it is good ti see some body may believe this old codger!

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"no one has come forth to share the information"

...now we're getting somewhere, just back yourself up by proving it. ;)

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there are no stupid questions only stupid people

179 motor where in the holden eh they where alright i am lookin for a 179 a 186 or a 202 so if you here of any of those 3 motors cheap can you email me

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selling a 179HP motor complete for $350, call 0417186887 if interested.

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the 179hp was a performance motor with little wqork they can go harder then a worked 202 they have a shorter stroke and when bored to a 192 they are unbelivable so do not underestimate this motor i have one in a hq and it gives any one a good run with the right fuel set up exhuast and head work they are unstoppable so any one wh says that they are useless do not appreciate or respect holdens hqtunna179hp

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hqtunna179hp

I LOVE 179/186 motors. Your 179 HP is no different to any other 179/186 that has been bored to 192 with some other work done to it.

For a more complete explanation, please read Dr Terry's reply above.

Cheers...Dave
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well said tunna! the hp 179 will happily sit on red line all day and not suffer from torsional crank twist and self destruct as will the cast crank versions ,any one who says they are no different does not know enough about holdens to take advice from they are far superior to all other red 6s

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Hi Guys.

Most of you guys are missing the point.

Any 3" stroke red motor (149/161/173/179/186) will rev sweetly, nicer than a 202. And yes, a forged steel crank is more desirable than a cast crank. But ALL engines up to April '67 have both of these.

The 179 HP is no different to a later EH 179 or an HD 179 & if bored to 186 it is no different in any way to early 186 engines either.

Cast cranks & 202s aren't really that bad either, that's what Brocky used to beat the 351 GT-HOs in 1972 at Bathurst.

Dr Terry.

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Hi Guys.

I'm not a self appointed expert, I'm just stating what I know to be true, from 35 years working in Holdens & also using parts books as a back up. I'm always happy to see evidence of otherwise.

The simple fact about this forged crank myth is that until 1967 when GM-H got their nodular iron factory open, every crank in every Holden 6 cyl (grey or red) produced prior to this date was a forged crank. GM-H did not have the facility to make cast cranks even if they wanted to, & nor did anyone else. The casting & material technology in those times is not what it is today.

It's the 1st time I've heard the one about only using HPs on Hydramatics. The fact is every 179 block up to around 230,000 or so has the HP as it's ID casting, & the early 149 blocks are blank in this area. I'm quite happy to discuss what some of you guys think what might different about an HP 179 compared to say a 1965 179 engine.

Pull apart any untouched pre 1967 Holden 6 motor & check the crank, you will find it is a forging.

Dr Terry.

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Dr terry... what really ARE the operational differences between the 2 cranks?
Which is stiffer/more bendy, which revs better etc

Kasey Chambers, The music industry equivalent
of a 4 inch fart can on a POS 4 banger! :)

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Never Drive A Car Younger Than Yourself!

Thanks heaps Terry for your inputs here, I'll forward on your contact information if I hear anything.

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[all else being equal] a steel forged crank is a lot stronger and a lot harder piece than a nodular iron crank, which is softer and more prone to flex each type has good and bad points. :)
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there are no stupid questions only stupid people

Hi knocker,
There are lots of people like yourself making unqualified guesses.

I am a qualified Fitter Machinist and I have studdied metalurgy as part of the studdies.
I also worked as a automotive mechanic for a number of years also, so I have the experience to say you are completly wrong in your assumption that steel is better than a cast crank.
Through my trade I was taught, and it is a well known fact that cast iron is more durable than steel for wear and ridgidity qualities.
Hardness and ridgidity are not necessarily the same thing! hardness can cause crankshaft breaking.

I have over 100 red motors here and have built and dismantled many more, the worst worn cranks are nearly always the steel ones as indicated above!

When I was starting out rebuilding red sixes I was given some sound advice from a firm that was heaviliy into racing they said that steel cranks flexed too much, whereas the cast ones remained more rigid in extreme conditions.

As previously stated all cranks were dropped forged steel up till about the of the HR's

Steel cranks only continued on for the performance engines like the LC XU-1 and the 186S etc, but by the time the 202 was released all cranks were the cast iron type. 72 and 73 Bathurst engines were completely standard 202 cast iron cranks.

Steel cranks can be hardened to give better wear, but this would only be considered by race teams.

To harden a cast crank was likely to be a much more difficult propersition at that time.

Holden engine technology did not keep up with the cubic capacity, as the bores increased it weakened the blocks and the bearings were a bit of a problem too.

Holden went through at least two, and probably three stages of strengthening the blocks once they had increased the bores to 186 and 202 capacity bores.

The 186A HR block design remained until the HK's then during the late HK or HT 186P it changed to a bit stronger design having an extra web at the LHS rear, then in 1975 three extra webs were added to the RHS rear behind the oil pump, this would be to stiffen up the rear on the block a bit more.
The blue and black 202's had a stightly smaller bore wich would have strenghtened the block more too.

The heads hardly changed at all from 149 to 202 just some had bigger combustion areas, valves and ports were the same, ( actually one port was smaller.)

The HP blocks with the thicked bores would have strengthened the block and reduced the torsional twist as well as slowing any bore bulging.

Cranks as far as I can tell have quite a story, as stated previously Holden likely outsourced them for fiancial reasons, and it would not surprise me if they were reused from another brand of car completely.

Cranks up till the 186 handled the power reasonably OK with normal driving but the steel cranks were not durable enough when hammered.

I think Holden made a mistake when making the 202 by offset gringing a 186 crank, because they did not allow any extra counterweight to counter the extra throw of the 202, and were plagued by engine vibration.

When Holden did produce a new crank design in the blue engines they seemed to have over compensated for it, as they were heavy as hell, and the flywheel was then lightened, probably to offset the crank overweight!

"Yella Terra" heads came in many configurations depending on what your engine size was.
When I first looked at heads in 1979 at Action Performance in Leederville ( Perth ) there were;

Small chamber, large chamber, small chamber milled out for better flow and bronzed in dividers for 12 port applications.
These were all exchange heads so the dates and numbering was only limited to Holden manufactured heads which was a large range.

This company sponsored the Bathurst challenge of Bill Nitskie in 1973.

I have a HP block here with a crack at the very bottom of number 6 bore, it could easily be welded up,
If anyone wants it free contact me on mikeirenest@activ8.n...

Mike81973

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G'day Terry Streetneat here...
Good to see you dont let the crank yankers get to you. Argument based on fact wins every time....
Where the holdenfans claim about steel cranks falls over is he is forgeting that the Commercial EH's were fitted with 179 motors as standard.... not just the hydro cars...

I had an early built EH ute a few years ago with factory fitted 179 HP- which to me is nothing extraordinary. I bought this ute from its original owner with a veiw to restoring it but was way to rusted. The radiator was also the larger heavy duty unit. It was a low milage car that still had all its original appointments - and nothing whatsover had been reconditioned or changed - we reckon it most likely had the original air in its tyres!

I would like also to see any evidence from the disbeleiver of his claims- but I'm not gunna get draw in by crank yankers...
Cheers streetneat

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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

how do you know nothing was changed ,and can you provide documentation to prove this and do you have the original rego papers to prove the numbers match or just more propaganda, crank yankers come you can do better than that i prefer my new meglamaniac title than that!

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As I stated I aint getting drawn into arguments that are not based on proven fact- Show us some ducumtation of your claims - dont worry - I loved being proven wrong- if it means I'll learn something new.
Unfortunatly I dont have any paper work when I bought the Ute. I only paid $150 for it and it was as original as they come - It was a local car bought from a farmer (family friend) that was well noted for his lack of servicing any of his machinary- although he never actually abused anything- he did kept all his machines in the shed - Ute included.
I have been in the car resto game for a little over twenty years and can tell pretty easily if a car is as it left the factory and if the original owner is telling the truth- it aint that hard to figure out ... A sales point would have to be - "The motor was recoed/replaced a few years back"... not some Farmer shuffling feet in the dirt and looking down mumbling something about - "It was lucky to get an oil change"...
I used to see this Ute when I was growing up,when I went to the local Farmers Co-op store as a kid also means I am pretty familar with it and its lack of anything changed. My father and the co- op staff used to rib him for his lack of fixing things...
Years of carting Fertilizer and feed- all be it only locally- took its toll on the body. The only good part was it still ran so sweetly
I photograped the Ute b4 it went to the wreckers- but not the engine- Why would I?see no need to make a song 'n dance over an EH Ute with a 179 HP motor fitted as standard equipment- they made lots of 'em...

Bruce from Logan Rd wreckers Greenslopes - made comment to me when he pulled the car apart for wrecking - that it most definetly had never had a spanner on anything other than the sump plug- It still had its original spark plugs! Points and condensor had only recently been changed when I bought it. Its last rego sticker was 1979- although that means little - the farmers Fairlane still has a 1986 rego label... Pays the rego but never gets around to changing the labels.

Pick up a Commercial EH sales brochure for engine options and you should see the 179 was standard Equipment.
Any info you have on Dunstan heads or any other experiences you encountered are more than welcome here - just dont be afraid to identify yourself and post up some copies of documents.
You may not be aware of who DR Terry actually is - Terry Bebbington has researched and written books on Holdens history- 50 Years of Holden is one that comes to mind - have a look at that book and you should see where he is coming from. As stated not only in Terry's book- but others I have on Holdens History -the EH commercial range wes available early 1964 with a 179 option with the beefed up S4 manual box now being availble for all cars.

The only thing not stated - was the engines were identified by a HP reading and later changed to 179 cast on the engine block. I too have collected and dismantled a lot of 149/179 motors - some with HP and some with 179 and a few with nothing (149) cast on the block - all had steel cranks- and we are talking about dozens of Motors. I still have some. I bought these motors for thier steel cranks and high comp cylinder heads.

I hope this dosent qualify as being drawn in by crank yankers...heh heh..
Cheers streetneat

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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

so no you dont have any documentation but nice story that we all love those ones about shed finds and one owners dont we .
see what i mean about douters and knockers.you can write as many books as you want but if you werent their you can only rely on what youve been told as truth and some times things may not be as they seem ,ps did your ute have the EJ auto large tranny hump as some early EHs had these and were sold pre release to government depts,if so it may explain larger radiator than usual ,not trying to stirr just offering possible explanation,and dont worry some of my info will be posted soon but not all as there is some i will be keeping to myself(head specs) due to its value as i still have some dies and am negotiating sale and these will be going to the new owner and he can do with it what he so pleases and yes i will be remailning anon because there is so many tools on the net i dont need them knocking my front door down looking for fisticuffs over holden disputes & envy of my accumulated parts.call me coward ,call me want you want i dont care really but as i said ive seen more in my lifetime than most can imagine ,youl see my info soon but dont expect engineering specs just build no.s and dates and verifications,HOLDON TIGHT!

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Anonimity is at your discretion, we prefer to log in with a user name so that people here take us seriously and also know who it is that we need to answer / flame etc...
I choose who I let know me and where I live, and that is easy to filter, you don't need to worry about people finding out who / where you are just by signing in, as that is virtually impossible unless you know people that are prepared to break privacy laws,which would also take an immense amount of time and trouble,, most of us here don't take anybody seriously unless they are prepared to sign a name to their posts so that it leaves no doubt as to the authenticity of the posting...
and as for the comment on knowing whether a car has been tampered with, I agree with Andrew,,, it is from experience that one can tell without any shadow of a doubt that a car is untouched in any area, be it body or mechanical,,, experience pays,, but if you are stating what you beleive is fact that goes against the grain of what we all beleive, then you need to back it up with provable facts and post it seriously with an answerable user name so that discussion can then be taken for real,, other than that, it is as you say Holden Fan,, just talk,,,
I too would love to see anything that we don't know as I am sure the rest of us would too,,,
awaiting keenly for the facts....
Cheers

john
Silence is Non Committal
MY SHED

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Cheers
John
:o)

Dislike me for who I am you may, like me for whom I'm not, you never will...
MY SHED

just talk ok getting tired of you lot told you it will come , i also told you i am in the process of showing you all just be patient,it will be worth the wait shouldnt be more than a couple of days! hang in there and stop slanging as i said look up more on hydros as their are currently 2 more being restored you can contact deepwater motorboat club to find the owners it is up to me to hand out their personal details

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....shouldn't be more than a couple of days ??????

..you got nothing mate ...5 years later ????

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Did this dick ever send anything in the way of proof ?

"[http://gallery.oldho...|Parts for sale]"
"[http://gallery.oldho...|Republic of Dusty's Shed]"
EMAIL
(postcode 3380)

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the capacity of a 179hp is lower than that of a bomed 202 it may be that the drivers you went against could not drive or build cars very well you are talking power they were a good motor but i must disagree with you statment
thanks mattao

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as far i know ive been told the blocks were made in canada the same as the old ford canadian 300 ci blocks in the f100s they had thicker walls to cope with the colder inviroments and the 179hp can be bored to 198 a lot easier than 186s because they have thicker piston sleeve walls so no loss in overheating problems thats why a lot drag people used them graham

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Hi
im restoring a 53 eh to orginal and would like to know the color red they used on motors so i can repaint my engine the orginal color?..would you know what type of red it was?

also where would i find 179 stamped onto the block as i cant locate it ... the only marking i can see if HP

thanks Chris

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No worries about fisticuffs or door beating here bud.! Christ every one one this site knows more about me than probably whats healthy and I 've never enocountered unwelcome visitors...!If we come across a bit harsh then its the usual problem encountered here with this form of communincation( cumputers) - that tone of voice is lost- so things can be interpretted easily in the wrong light.

I wouldnt just dismiss DR Terry or any other reasearchers either- Thats like saying you dont know how to do your job. Apart from being a seasoned car builder, I am also a free lance journo for some of the car magazines Streetmachine Mag in particular... so I always make sure I get my facts well researched from sevearal sources b4 I write anything - that dosent make me infallible however and I always like to learn something new.

Lets get back to basics here

The original argument was along the lines of whether or not all early Holdens were fitted with steel cranks, whether or not 179 and HP are the same engine and wheather or not HP motors (early 179) were fitted to cars other than Hydro bodies.


This discussion can be a bit friutless as Holden are well known not to stick to their same build plan in different states- Brisbane assembled cars are well known for breaking away from protocol with some strange combos built here. So what you encountered in your years of experience may be a regional thing.
The Ute I had was not a hydro large tunnel body - that is something I checked b4 disposing of it- I would have kept the tunnel. However Old Val Neil around the corner from me - (a walkig encyclopdia on EH Holdens)has owned a Hydro bodied EH Ute - without it ever having had a Hydro fitted- which apparently according to him( hes a retired Panel Beater) - this was normal for the Brisbane built cars. This may also be true of cars built elsewhere.

Its all swings and roundabouts with these type of discussions - so if you have any ne winfo to add feel free- we all want to know about it.

Cheers Streetneat
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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

Well.... this fella came back to share his information didnt he! Good to see he 'lived up to his word'!

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Yeah I remember that thread well...

"just talk ok getting tired of you lot told you it will come , i also told you i am in the process of showing you all just be patient,it will be worth the wait shouldnt be more than a couple of days!"

Well 5 months is more than a couple of days... mind you I'm not on here all the time, perhaps there IS some magic photographs proving it all...?

26 mpg (11 litres / 100 km) highway km. from my mild 202. Towing, cruising or floggin it. Beat that.

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I hope you don't think that was me.
I have just put up some dunstan info in my shed, but that came from a wheels magazine from in the club i'm a member of. Although it may back up some of his theories i thought it may interest everyone.
I remembered this thread & when i saw this story i thought i should pass it on to all for a read.

Dave

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I HAVE AN EH 64 WITH THE RED 179 AND ITS A BEAUTIFUL MOTOR AND HAS A LOTA GO IN IT. YES AND WITH THE RIGHT EXHAUST AND FUEL SET UP ITLL NEVA DIE. SORRY BOYS!!

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Shoogy-doog

Shoogy-dog.

How would you rate the 179 to the 186?

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No noticable difference between them...

Cheers...Dave

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I have the 179HP - going to put it in my S1 1955 Land ROver.

Thoughts?

Cost to bore out cylinders to 198?

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Can only be bored to 192, but WHY? The extra HP is negligible and you cannot rebuild the motor again...only bore it as far as necessary.

I have more fully answered your question in your thread.

Cheers...Dave

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all this talk on 6 cyl heads an havent seen red head story you could buy/build a 12 port head good for weabers .A guy called phill erving who was tied up in the x flow grey head and repco built a down port head inlets at about 45% to valves bolt on horses I had a down port head on a falcon cranked red six magneto and injection in an eh ute on the street rough to look at but wat an animal to drive went like clapers cant wait to retire so i can build sompin else
dibs

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dibs

I had a EH ute I was second owner it had the original 149 engine so 179 was not standard. The first 179s all went into autos because the standard box could not handle the power of 149 let alone 179, my mate bought a brand new Premier 179 and could not get a manual they were not available. However the gearbox problem was later sorted as manuals became available. The cranks were all steel till about 67, I did a tour of the Holden factory in May 67 and watched forged cranks being made.
I believe but have no guarantee that steel cranks were always used on the industrial sixes, for say big generators and cement mixers, forklifts and other machinery but don't know if they were the same as the auto type ones, they may have been heavier forgings or other differences. check a commercial engines parts manual and it may tell you.

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Hi
i am resotring a 63 EH to orginal condition and would like to know if anyone if aware of the actual paint color used on the 179 red motors as i wish to repaint the engine to orginal color..

also my 179 has HP stamped on it and Im unable to locate 179 stamped onto the block at all (motor still in car) would anyone be able to tell me where abouts on the block i would find the 179 stamped? thanks in advance Chris.

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I'm reasonably sure the mob who do the original (darker) red for Holden motors is listed on the GTS Wheel Paint Code page in the Holdenpedia. If not, a search should turn up the info as it has been discussed on here a few times. (If you find it by searching and it isn't in Holdenpedia, please supply a link ot the thread so we can add the info to Holdenpedia).

Your 179 is an early one, so has HP on the side rather than 179. Congratulations, you have an original EH 179.

Cheers...Dave

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I too am rebuilding my wifes very original EH auto with the HP 179 engine. i have the block stripped back to bare steel ready for painting but cant find any paint codes at all for the older brown/red colour these engines where painted. has any one found this info.

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i have a new thought for all i have in the shed a 179/3.3/186 and a hp engine and the 3.3 blue and black im racing speedway and it has come to the point of a serous eng build now believe it or not i have all eng next to each other and taking out the over sized piston measurement all of the engine blocks mike up the same in the bore it is just the crank and rods and the pistons that are different so there is a very noticable difference with the 3.3 crank as it has a rough casting look to it and the hp is definatly different (shot piened) sorry spelling not that good ha im just a mechanic what do i know about spelling any how
back to the story if you want to paint the engins to the origonal colour go to your local auto shop and ask for a can of high temp gmh red paint it will need to be painted on thin and only 2 coats phew thats the paint sorted out
next the differences with the engine block as i only rebuilt the motors and did not machine them i want to know dr terry what is your oppinion about what block to use as the engine blocks that i have are all the same bore diameter i do not want to loose any more races to these cortinas (aka [Naughty Pottyword]boxes) as this is a discrace to the holdens
one guy in my class is on methanol in a torana and dyno figures to prove 258 hp at the wheels no lie and he cant drive i want to be realistic as my budget will allow i can beat him with about 230 hp i do know a few tricks with the eng im rinning a solid lifter cam roller rockers yt head with max porting just want to know which block will be able to withstand that kind of torture as the last broke 1 rocker stud and 4 different rings with one over rev (not good)
my cam has 106 deg of lobe seperation and 540 tho of lift with 550 tho of duration rather big and i only want to build this once and do it right so any info on eng block specs with measurements will be appreciated
another believer for you to terry sory dr terry

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so...theres a 308 HP block in trading post at moment for "nothing under $5000", coz this guy was told the HP blocks are rare and better. so is that true with 308's or just same BS as with 179's etc?

Street Machine Assoc of SA ROCKS

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Street Machine Assoc of SA ROCKS

They are an early (mostly HT) 308 block EXACTLY the same as a 179HP is just an EH 179 block...

Cheers...Dave

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well i got a 186 and just bort a 179 hp head and was just woundering if the 179hp has biger valves becasue that is wat i have been told. is it true that yella terra use the 179 hp head to make there heads.

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I have bought a HP 308 block and heads and crank. So have I got a better block or just a good block with a better crankshaft. And none pollution heads. 250horsepower?

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It's just a real early 308, the first run had hp on the side to differentiate them from the early 253 blocks that had nothing cast on the side.

visit my shed
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Hi, finding thios all very interesting.

just a quick comment Re the DR, umm if holden sixes only came out with steel cranks, why on earth do i see cast cranks a dim a dozen and my steel crank sold on Trade Me for a pretty penny.

also i have a HP(6)block sitting in the shed,
im in Rotorua NZ if anyone is keen to purchase.

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I wonder who the guy was who had the dies etc for the Dunstan head? I wouldn't mind buying them . The ones that did run ( one was run back in the 70's in Vic. drag racing) ran up to 9000 revs but as with any rotary valve arrangement the shaft wears rapidly.
Cheers!

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Even at first glance the 308 HP block has different oil galeries what stands out straight away is the first oil gallery on the cam shaft has a complete machined trench I beleive the standared ones are just a hole. obviously overly engineered which I believe is the case with the first of every motor holden brought out as they put another 1.6 l capacity on a block and I beleive as in all the other HP moters they wanted no trouble so after a while they wouild lower the machining costs when things proved themselves It would be the end of there idea if they releesed the 308 to replace the chev and it blew up all over the place that would be the end of it and they would of had to of kept importing the motors at great cost and probably would of ended up being cheeper to import the whole car and that would of been the end of it all. Just being logical.

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Old post but I couldn't let this go.
308 "HP" blocks are just early 308 as already mentioned. Remember at HT release 308 was in Brougham only, and Brougham was not the success GMH thought it would be (why do you think GMH had 700 odd 307 and powerglide combos left over from predicted HK production?), thus HT Brougham also was not a huge seller so not a huge amount of 308 required. Once the 307 stocks were exhausted in HT other than Brougham, and 308 replaced 307 across the HT range a lot more 308 were required. Which meant more 308 patterns (to make the sand moulds from). And the done thing by then was to have the engine capacity on the side. The HP patterns were used in parallel with 308 patterns for a while until they all became 308.

The reason why early 308 had HP and early 253 were blank? Because the patterns used initially were obviously developed during the period where 179 had HP and 149 were blank.

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Hi there just wondering is a 179hp head the same as a yellow terra head ,regards.baz

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No.

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About to pick up a 179HP complete with hydramatic, came out of a (supposedly) low mileage EH around 9 years ago. Was running then, has been shedded since. I only want the motor - am going to replace the 186 in my HD.

So will be selling the hydramatic if anyone's interested.

cheers
Sargo

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what goose said HD's were hastily designed!??!

Hi my name is Dutchy, I use to have this lh Torana when I bought the car I paid 4000 grand for it.The motor is a 173 hp block with a 186 head on it now I've had a few desputes about this block the 173 hp red there saying that there is no such thing. I'm just wondering where this block came from I've been told that it could of came out of the old hq don't know I'm really interested in knowing.....

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well dutchy you have posted on a very old thread.but an answer to your question-a 173 motor was the basic 6cyl engine size for a hq-hj holden or lh-lx torana.it will have "173" on the left hand side under the exhaust manifold.a 179 with "hp"in the same spot is an early eh motor.a 179 with 179 on it is a later eh-hd holden motor.hp stamped motors were never fitted to toranas originally because they had been out of production for YEARS before lh torana production .if your torana has a hp motor it is not the original motor.cheers

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T

My Shed

Holdenpaedia, they're the brakes Mate.

Hey,

I am restoring an EH Wagon and it has a 179hp motor thats been out of the car for around 10 years.

I am also putting air conditioning in the car as part of the restoration.

A friend was recommending that I put a 202 in it as it has more grunt to run the air con and I wont have to reco the other motor. It also has the brackets to install the aircon.

Am I worth looking at rebuilding the current motor or look at getting an already reco'd 202?

Cheers

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G'day mate you have ask a question on a very old post.
You are best off going back to the home page on the top right hand side to post a story & post your question again.
I'm not 100% sure but I think you may have fouling issues a standard pump bracket on the lower left hand side of the engine the compressa normally underneath the alternator. But I don't think this possible on an EH again I'm not 100% I think you may to mount the compresser on the top right hand side like a VK also on the VK black engine I think the compresser is mount directly to the head.
On the blue & red 6's the compresser mounted via a bracket which also has the alternator fitted to.
I hope this helps

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Cheers Shane

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I had a HD wagon around 1980. It had a few differences, like a different dash, electric back window and some other little differences that I can't recall. When I sold it, I had a blue with one prospective buyer. I was sure it was a 179 as it had HP on the block. He swore it was a 149 because of the engine no. Checking later I found it did have a 149 no. I have not seen anywhere that a HP version existed.

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It looks like there are no Holden, ex employees are around to confirm all the bits and peace ideas, which have truth to them. I know for a fact my orgional EH Prem 179 HP motor had steel crank. My understanding was these engines were manufactured in Canada. But only hear say. I have a 186P block in another EH Sedan with 202 Cast Iron crank, machined mains to fit. Nitrided and polished journals. Done by an engine builder who knew how to build motors.It seams strange that as long as I have been into EH's, everyone who knows any thing say HP blocks are better. Thicker walls better castings.Seams to agree with one of two theories, either Canada made. Or manufactured better to start, then changed to save money. I Also have seen the difference with the Rockers on late model reds and HP 179 rocker. Try using a hone stone to increase the oil groove in the push rod depression. Do that on both see that EH 179 a lot tougher. Answer that one? I was breaking rocker on my engine,then managed to get a set from 179 HP Block, never broke another.Engine builders know, Self appointed gurus need to have some humility and respect that others know better.Can we ask Holden for the facts??

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