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Rare Spares GTS flute

Hey Guys
Has anyone out their ever installed the rare spares GTS flutes
into a set of front gaurds?
Tossing up whether to buy a set of second hand HZ gts
gaurds or try and torcher my self by attempting to fit a set
of after market flutes from rare spares?

Cheers Maksta.

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don't bother unless you are a fantastic metal repairer, they are very hard to get to measure up right and warp easily when welding, you'd be better off finding some original guards.
70ute [and a 68 kingy]

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[http://gallery.oldho...|shed]
[http://www.oldholden...|holdenpedia]
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there are no stupid questions only stupid people

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Wanted information from any one that has any information that has worked in a place that built ambulance's of any type in particular holden hq to wb's and any ambulance builder's paper work or manuals thanks authorised collector of emergency electrical's

are they hq or later .if later model guards contact me at madmax1@hotmail.com and how much you want for them

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Wanted information from any one that has any information that has worked in a place that built ambulance's of any type in particular holden hq to wb's and any ambulance builder's paper work or manuals thanks authorised collector of emergency electrical's

so how much for the pair of em email me at madmax1@hotmail.com

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These are relatively easy to fit, the Rare Spares Flutes have a recessed lip around them and you cut the hole, sit the Flutes in from behind then weld into place.
Normally what I do first is trim them to fit, squaring them up to the bottoms of the Flutes to match the line of the bottom of the Guard and Sill panel.
This way when sizing the Flutes up visually later on, they don’t look out of whack like a lot you see fitted to alternative models leaning forwards and looking just plain wrong.
It is these dodgy attempts that put so many off doing the same to their own car.
I like something different and have fitted the HX GTS Flutes to a HQ, HQ GTS Flutes to a LC, HG GTS Flutes to a FX, and have hand formed subtle Flutes into other Guards, these are relatively easy to do and if you look at the pictures of my FX Holden one set of GTS Flutes I chiseled out of a genuine HK Bathurst Monaro that had been tipped over big time and the Flutes were folded in on themselves front to rear then again top over to the bottom, yet I managed to straighten these and fit them into the Guard, so fitting a set of Rare Spares Flutes is nothing.
So if you intend on doing this, run an imaginary line along the bottom of the sill, measure up from the bottom the set amount needed, use a picture as a guide, who cares if you are 1mm to 5mm out, by the time they are fitted up so they are square to the bottom line of the sill panel no one is going to notice.
There is also another old saying that goes; “They can never see both sides of the car at the same time

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oinks308

hey pig sems you know what your doing want to do mine lol contact me at madmax1@hotmail.com

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Lol mate it is relatively easy IF you are handy with a welder and have a little panel knowledge.
Sure you can stuff them big time, but if you aren't looking at this as a set Dollar per hour exercise the results can be very rewarding.
Don't under estimate the Rare Spares Flutes, they are well made and designed to be fitted with ease, it all depends on the level of the standard you expect as to how you rate these.
I watched a guy use a new (new about 5 years or so back) non-welding technique to fit a set of these.
They did an article on it at the time in the old SuperCars magazine on their Project2000 XP Sedan Delivery project where instead of replacing panels and welding them in they used an epoxy type resin in a calking gun and shaped the panels in exactly the same way as how the Rare Spares Flutes are 'lipped', with a recessed ledge that sits behind the panel allowing the flutes to sit thru and flush with the outside of the panel.
It was claimed that is stronger than welding and outlasted the repair as there wasn’t any way for the moisture to get into the repair because where possible you wiped this goo over both sides thereby sealing it forever.
Then once dry, it was ground back and another coat was pumped over then applied like bog over the outside.
Then this was ground into shape, then wiped over with bog to finish off, sounding much like some of the products StreetNeat talks about?
Sorry, I am old school and like my oxy welder way too much!
But this guy who did the Flutes.
He lined them up to a template he had made up from an original set of guards so he could get them within mm's of original placement.
He then jig sawed and hand snipped the hole out so the Flutes fitted in from behind then drilled holes thru the outer panel that sat over the lip of the Flutes.
He then Dolly'd the panel up a little to sit flat, ground inside and outside the guard and Flutes where the two panels met, then pumped this goo over the Flutes, pulled them thru from behind and where the goo went thru the holes he had drilled he wiped it over the ground metal with a bog applicator and waited for it to set.
When dry, he again pumped some more goo over and let it set.
Then ground the entire outside over, gave it a skim of bog, a quick sand over and hey presto! It was finished.
I am not really a believer of this 'glue method' of doing things, but hey, larger manufacturers like Holden and Ford and all the Jap car makers use it a lot as it is claimed that the glue is stronger then welding panels etc together and has more flex.
Ford from the EA on glue their front end assemblies to the firewall and I have been told Holden too use this method in a lot of their cars so who am I too argue?
This was this blokes argument in doing the Flutes this way; they weren't in a structural part of the car so what was the problem?
He also fitted a lot of Spoilers and Scoops using the same method and had never had one 'fly off'... so he claimed...
I am still a skeptic using this method, but it is being used by a lot of everyday Panel Shops and Customisers in the states as a quick and effective method of repairing older cars while minimising panel warpage and the lengthy welding process.
Sorry but I do have a hard time accepting some of these newer products hehe
But if all else fails, it would be an easier alternative for yourself maybe?
I do not know what this stuff is called but suspect it is a resin based glue, could be very wrong though, but I know you can bog and paint over it and it dried to a very solid finish, actually took a good grinding to get it back.

Cheers, Pig (oinks308)

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oinks308

thanks for ya help im old school too any help appriciated where are ye and you can find me at madmax1@hotmail.com check the new shed somthing for everybody

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No mate, I use Sikaflex, thats black or white and dries like rubber.
This stuf was a creamy white and dried like a cross between fibrefill and Bog, sanded off as a dust...
Was like Bog in a tube lol
Unless Sikaflex comes in more than what I have seen which is only rubber/ sealer based goo that doesn't harden like how bog does?...
I am in Ipswich QLD.

Cheers, Pig (oinks308)

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oinks308

Not sika flex- its 3M panel bond... and it is a two part epoxy that is applied with a $300 special gun for this type of repair. The corners of the panel still have to be tackwelded. I used this similar technic (without tongue)when fixing in my solid sides for the EK van. Sika flex will work to a certain degree- but we consider that the very rough way of doing it.
I have already advised Maksta against the Rares type of flutes- its a difficult thing to get right and you are welding a nearly flat panel into a curved one- resulting in a lot of warpage - especially across the flutes- a bettr method would be trying the 3Mpanel bond- but as the panel must be done with a recessed joddled egde- this is near impossible with where the edges of the flutes are in relation to where the part has to be fitted near the underlying door jamb brace thats part of the guard.
As stated b4 - look for some genuine GTS gaurds - works out cheaper and better in the long run we have found - depends on how much trouble you want to go to if doing it yourself
I just plain refuse to do them anymore .
Cheers streetneat.
(Click Here to view the world of streetneat)

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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

I knew it wasn't Sikaflex!
But I do understand where ya comin from.
Quiet a few years back I bought new inner and outer rust repair sections for a mates XF Falcon for I think $65 per side for the 4 needed pieces from Rare Spares and they were a pisspoor fit.
Spent 3 days per guard straightening and working my inner and outer magic when a guy delivered a part to me and asked why I was wasting my time?
The mate pulled off the guard and showed him the new inners and the ace job of fitting the outer rust repair panel when this guy goes back to the Van and returns with a wholesale catalogue.
Flicks thru then points out 'XF Front Guards - $75ea...
Arrrgghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Needless to say I ended up with that catalogue and added Replacement Panels/ Lights and Bumpers to my books as extra for the Company to deal in and offer the customers.
Six whole mongrel days fixing those damned things!
Just doesn't pay to get outta bed some days :'{(
But back to the 3M Panel Bond?
Whats your view on this stuff in taking over the role of welding in repair panels?
You do remember the XP2000 project they did the lower rear quarter panel repairs to that I spoke about don't you?
I just don't trust it to the extent at which it was pushed, do you?
Hmmmm?

Cheers, Pig (oinks308)

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oinks308

"but as the panel must be done with a recessed joddled egde- "
What is a Joddled edge?

cheers Andrew

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cheers Andrew

I think it must be grogan time for Andrew so here goes...
A joddled edge ~~> ---------\___________

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oinks308

thankyou..................
cheers Andrew

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cheers Andrew

Ok its trimmed my reply again?
Got me stuffed why it does that?
Ok... Also had below that;
The panel is recessed so when you lay the replacement panel in on the fold it then sits even and flush with the surrounding panel making for flush repair (also somewhere else for moisture to collect between the sandwiched metal and create more rust IMHO)

Cheers, Pig (oinks308)

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oinks308

I believe ( in my totally drug free state )That 3M Panel Bond has its place - we have fitted new solid sides to an Escort once - it was a POS that our mate wanted to spend nearly no money on - it came out fine- and many new cars use this same attachment technic - no tongue required. It still needs a few tacks and the ooze is sandable - I found it is a good thing and maybe cam be used as another method for attachment for those without a welder- bit rough in my book but so are many of the cars out there that could benifiet from this - not to be used in structural areas.- although new floor pans in some new cars use this in their asembly.

And here is something of interest - a Commodore I think it was was assembled entirely with this panel bond by one of the universities and crash tested - It failed the saftey aspect as it didnt crumple properly - sort of bounced off the crash barrier and buggered up Buster the crash test dummy somewhat... So it received the thumbs down from the research team for being way too strong! I read about this in one of the magazines that get sent to panel shops. MEN mag I think (motor equipment news ).
Cheers streetneat
(Click Here to view the world of streetneat)

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Cheap, Fast, Good - pick two.
If its cheap and its fast - it wont be good.
If its good and its cheap - it wont be fast.
If its fast and its good - it wont be cheap.

StreetneatShed

Isn't it called joggled?

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no listen to them they know what there on about

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Actually you are correct as well.
It is or can be referred to as a Joddler or a Joggler.
It basically depends which side of the water you're on...
For those who are curious but not game enough to step up and ask like our 'Holden Fan' here did (if you never ask you never learn) go to these pages for a quick explanation and some pic's...

Picture of a Joddler
https://secure.thori...

Picture of metal bent by a Joddler
http://www.geocities...

And an explanation of the use of a joddler/ joggler
http://www.morrisreg...
*QUOTE*
There are two ways to join: by overlapping or by butt joints. The latter are really better, and less tricky than they sound - you cut the patch, scribe its shape on the body (or vice versa), cut out the equivalent shape, clamp the patch or "plate" in position, tack weld and finally weld the rest of the join. Overlapping is a marginally easier method but can leave a potential rust trap behind each joint. There's a handy tool known variously as a joggler or joddler which presses a step into the edge of the patch so that it aligns with the surface of the original, needing hardly any filling to finish off. However, I found that it's possible to achieve a similar result by making a gadget out of a couple of offset strips of scrap steel to fit the jaws of a heavy vice.

I hope this answers another of lifes great mysteries lol
There is also a picture of StreetNeat in his shed workin on his EK Van where he uses a joddler to weld the van roof to the rear of the wagon roof, a fine example of how useful a joddler can be.

Cheers, Pig (oinks308)

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oinks308

Hey Streetneat

You wouldnt have a set of cheep HZ GTS gaurds would you?
Cheers Maksta.

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