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Another Successful Weber Conversion

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Well if there is a better all 'round carbie for the 202 I haven't found it. This really brought my VK Wagon alive! This thing whips of the mark quickly now and really gets going all through the rev range. I personally think it is (near) VK EFI performance, for heaps less work. As a bonus 59 k's more out of my first tank of fuel. Brilliant! More to be done, now the EST needs a little upgrading. Will keep you posted how it goes
Cheers
LMH

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What weber did u use. Im looking for a replacement for the varijet on the wb. cheers

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Makes a great conversion for the Varajet. Better throttle response, better fuel economy, better, better, better. Simple as that. You can get these carbies from wreckers pretty easily and they dont ask much for them either usually $50 or so with an aircleaner. One thing though. Do yourself a favor and get a fully carbie kit, (the one that has the diaphrams in it) replace all these, give it a good blow out, keep the same jets, and get your self an adaptor, and off you go. Time permitting tonight I will post more pictures of the conversion.
Cheers
LMH

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LMH,

Make sure you have got the body of the carburettor earthed properly. Don't just rely on the bolts into the manifold and the bolts/studs into the head.

Several people (including myself) have had intermittent and unreliable automatic choke and idle solenoid operation due to bad earths.

I ran an earth wire up to one of the small screws that secure the choke actuator cover.

Brett.

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Hi there,

Do you need to do anything to the accelerator linkage arm or does it stay the same. I have a V8 acclearator cable because I was going to put a Holley on. I would like some info on the auto choke set up too. I have this really good rust free VK that I could not get to run right on the Varijet. She just keeps running rich no matter what I do. Will these webers just go on without any jet tampering and run pretty well?

Ta
CK

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Would love to get some pics of your weber conversion. I have the weber and adaptor palte plus v8 throttle cable ready to go

The 2 bls dont really match the adaptor plate that well, any tips or pics would help. I see redline offer a linkage kit, might be worth the $ rather than stuffing around. Dont have the air filter off the ford to suit, to make the holden one fit would be difficult. Will the ford one squeeze in there or do you have to trim the inlet etc.
Thanks
Clinton
Brisvegas
VK

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Cheers Tom

Hi, My father-in-law has a WB 1 Tonner with a blue 202, and is interested in swapping the Varajet with a weber.What type of adapter plate do i need to mate the weber to the existing manifold, and where can they be optained from. I had a WB ute years ago and never had any success with the Varajet, even after my mechanic sent it away to be reconditioned.At the time i toyed with the idea of putting a 350 Holley on it as i knew you could buy adapters for the conversion. My mechanic who was a Ford man did'nt like Holleys for normal street driving and suggested a weber as you have used.

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Theres plenty of room for the air cleaner as the weber carby is not as tall as the varijet . YOU can get the redline adapter from auto barn , most speed shops , even repco , most will have to order it in for you part number for the adapter plate is 10-218.you will also need 3 spacer platethat go between the carby base and the adapter get these from ford or 2 come in the carby repair kit or just get them from an xe-xf ford at the wreckers..

wombat

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Will be doing the conversion myself in the next couple of months . What exactly do you mean when you say est upgrades cause these early model commys are foriegn territory to me.
Cheers Scotty.
"[http://gallery.oldho..."|Link To Scottys Shed]"
>E-mail Me
The Mind is like a Parachute. It Works far better when Open:)

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Cheers Scotty.
"[http://gallery.oldho..."|Link To Scottys Shed]"
>E-mail Me
The Mind is like a Parachute. It Works far better when Open:)

The VK 6 cylinder came with Bosch EST. (Electronic Spark Timing) This actually ran a simple sort of engine managment computer which controlled the spark timing. It was quite sophisticated but its downfall was the very conservative timing values it used. No more than 20 deg total advance. And conservative spark advance everywhere else, its sole purpose being to restrict emissions to the max.
I have also fitted LPG to the vehicle now and LPG loves advance, so Im working on modding the EST computer to give me more suitable (read efficient) advance curves to further improve economy & power on petrol and Gas. See the link below for the oldholden EST page.

http://www.oldholden...

Long term im hoping to rewrite the software on the original computer but for now I will adapt another aftermarket controller inside the est case which is fully programmable. I will keep you all posted of my progress in the next few weeks as things go forward.
Cheers

LMH

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I have one of these carbs on an XF here if anyone is looking for one, complete with air cleaner etc $50

Western Vic
visit my shed
>E-mail Me

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Instead of an adapter would it be better to get a twin barrel manifold if one is available?

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good to hear of another weber believer!

they are great aren't they...

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My first car was a HJ sedan,(about 24 years ago) it had a commodore blue 202 and a 4 speed.

It also had a webber on it.
I never fitted it, it was like that when I bought it.

That car ran great the whole time I had that engine fitted, which was about 3 years, at which time I fitted a 308.

It never gave any trouble at all. It ran hard and fast all the way, or cruised when required. The whole package was very friendly. I still tell people to copy that setup, as you can't beat it for an everyday setup.

The only thing that annoyed me was the air cleaner assembly, which was the square job with the 4 metal clips that held the whole thing together.

When the air cleaner got moist, it would suck in at the centre, toward the venturi's. Sometimes it would start creaping over them, and the engine would run a bit flat. I'd pull over, reset the aircleaner, then away I'd go again. It never happened often though. I just never liked that aircleaner.

I sold that engine and gearbox to a bloke who wanted it for his EH wagon, to my knowledge it's still in there.

A Webber on a blue 6 is the only way to go.

Regards,
Ross.

[http://gallery.oldho...|My Shed]
Email Me

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16 years ago, I put a Weber 34 ADM on my 186 EJ, people thought I was mad. Maybe I was a pioneer?

Brett.

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hi there, i have a 179 come 186 in my eh sedan, what manifold should i use to fit the webber, i also have x2 headers and some manifolds wont fit cause of the water warmed lump at the base, i would like to use the water warmed type manifold if possible as i am after econmy, any sugestions, its my favourite toy. regards .

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I have used 186S (Stromberg WW) manifolds, but a 2 barrel Holley manifold would probably work too.

The Stromberg WW has very close bore spacings and diameters to the Weber, but the stud spacings are slightly different.

My method is to remove the studs from the manifold, drill and tap four new holes, bolt a 1/2 inch thick adapter plate with recessed holes (cap screws or countersunk) into the new holes. Then drill and tap holes in the adapter plate for the studs to suit the Weber. The adapter plate is necessary to provide extra height so the throttle mechanism will clear the manifold.

Brett.

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whats involved with this conversion, just a two barrel manifold?? and how hard is it to put onto a hgute 186ci?? any help would be gratly appreciated.

cheers anthony

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I'm not a big modified carby fan myself, but I know how thorough you are with these things and the level of detail you provide is much appreciated.

I'll make up a Weber H page on this site that seems to be so much
faster today.

T

[http://www.oldholden... | Holdenpaedia]

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T

My Shed

Holdenpaedia, they're the brakes Mate.

Thanks once again for sharing the deatils of your work.

[http://www.oldholden... | Weber Conversion]

T

[http://www.oldholden... | Holdenpaedia]

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T

My Shed

Holdenpaedia, they're the brakes Mate.

Ok, what is different about this carbie that makes it special?

I have heard a few people both in this forum and the real world highly recommend fitting a "ford webber" to a 202. Not doubting the advice, just want to know why they work so much better.

Also, am wondering if this would be a good carbie to fit to a stock 253??

It is currently running the standard 2brl WW Stromberg, with standard cam/porting etc. I am not looking for big performance gains (would fit a 4brl quaddie for that). Rather i just want better economy for everyday driving (and if a small performance gain comes with that then i will not complain).

Any advice appreciated.

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They are are two stage carburettor, that is, they have a primary throttle and venturi, and a secondary throttle and venturi. WW Strombergs and 350 Holley etc do not have this system.

What makes the Weber better (in my opinion) is that when only running on light throttle, the secondary is closed. This means that all the air is passing through the primary and therefore the velocity through the primary venturi is much higher than it would be in the case of other two barrel carburettors.

If the air velocity is kept higher then the fuel metering stays in the linear region, maintaining a better mixture. This is why these carburettors can be taken off a 4.1 litre engine and run perfectly on a 186 or 202 without making any changes to the jets.

But they will not work on your 253. The 253 inlet manifold is designed to require that both throttles open at the same time.

Brett.

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I use a 308 quaddy on my 253 man. It's amazing. The extra power you gain means you don't need as much fuel in the long run, and when you wanna gun it, the secondaries fire up and let you go.

So it's not bad at all.

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email

Yeah i was thinking that a vac-sec 2 barrel would not work on a 253 because all the fuel would be on one bank at low rpm. Engine would last about 2 minutes doing that lol.
I had a silly idea about building a tall adapter (say at least 2 inches tall, and with a hollow center) and mounting the weber at the top of the adapter but at 90 degrees to where a carb would normally be mounted (so that instead of the barrels being in left/right configuration they would be in front/back configuration). Theoratically this would make the fuel/air mixture spread evenly between left and right bank.

Just another stupid bogan idea?? would the large open space between the carb and manifold slow the air speed to much?? or worth trying if i get bored??

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Come on old holdeners. There are a heap of smart people that posted in this thread.

Surely someone must have an oppnion on his idea.

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You know how I love 253's AND 34ADM Webers. I wonder if it could be a marriage made in heaven. Well if they mount it on a 4.1 falc motor, then a 4.2 Holden motor should be within reach. The real challenge is to get even mixture to both sides of the manifold. Presumably as Holden fan mentioned, mounting the carbie lengthwise, centered over the 2 (or 4)original carb intakes (With an open common area) should provide even flow.
Question is, how would it go? I've found the weber to really lift torque on the 202. Would it do the same on a 253? Could it lift 253 torque by a useful amount? a V8 sucking through 1 barrel. Interesting to say the least. What do others think? At the end of the day some one will try it. I would given time, but already so many projects.
Thoughts anybody?

Cheers
LMH

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lmh, sorry to say but its not possible as you have a dual plane manifold and each side needs a throat to receive mixture. if you were to make a tall, open adapter to share the carb with both manifold inlets it would be physically possible but i think it would be far from an optimal setup, and carb/adapter height would require a scoop or hole.

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This original thread was the seed that has finally sprouted into reality. Turned out to be a good idea after all.
Cheers
LMH
Sure, Power gives you top speed
But TORQUE is how you get there!

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the webers are quite tall and would likely need a bonnet scoop or no bonnet if such an adapter was made.

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Great post LMH,
Can I ask some questions on what sort of fuel consumption you are getting? I have done a similar conversion on my ute (186, โ€œlumpy

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The automatic choke on the 34ADM does not rely on heat from the engine. They are heated internally using an electric element powered by 12 volts.

It is easy to see if they are opening. Just drive the car for 10 minutes and then take the top off the air cleaner, the choke valve should be open, in the vertical position.

A possible cause of excessive fuel consumption in these carburettors is a hole or split in the power bypass circuit diaphragm. This causes the power bypass to be open all the time, making the mixture very rich. This diaphragm is located under a cover at the front of the carburettor, secured by three screws.

Brett.

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Hey LMH, nice work on the webber conversion, just wondering how the programable EST was coming along, i am very interested in how you'd rewrite the programing? I have a basic programing knowledge (used QBASIC, Visual Basic, JAVA and some SQL compilers) just wondering how hard it would be, My black EST is running gas and as you said gas loves advance, thinking of gettiting it up around the 34 deg mark rather than the standard 20. Also, how hard would it be to make a PC interface for the EST? this might help diagnose problems a little better and help reliability.

I think this could be a great area of performance gain as people could recurve their own dizzy's! What do you think? How's it coming along? Cheers

[http://gallery.oldho...|Shed In Progess..]
This is Holden country, where on a quite day you can hear the fords rusting.

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Shed In Progess...
This is Holden country, where on a quiet day you can hear the fords rusting.

Hi mate. EST progress has been slow due to other projects chewing up my time. I'm getting a new shed soon so this is well worth it. Anyhow, I'm attacking the EST on 2 fronts.
1.) I have downloaded the binary file off the 2732 Eprom out of the EST. In this file is the code and presumably the spark advance table. This of course could be modified assuming you know what your looking for. I have not had time to look into this yet though.
2.) Remove guts of EST out of case and fit the Jaycar programmable ignition inside case. This has progressed well, and I have it fully wired into the original EST Computer housing. It literally can be plugged into the EST computer loom and replace the EST computer. It will take another week or 2 to do the final sorting (I'm doing it in my spare time at work). I'm hoping to fire up the VK on this soon.

Cheers
LMH

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Thats really awseome, what is the Jaycar cat number for the computer? Is the spark advance table able to be uploaded to the jaycar computer? If you could email me the file i'd be happy to have a look through it, might be able to help depending on what language it's in. mitchryder23@hotmail... Sounds very promising

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Shed In Progess...
This is Holden country, where on a quiet day you can hear the fords rusting.

Check your email mate, it has what you seek

Cheers

LMH

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Thanks mate, just got home from work and looking at it now, they Jaycar option seems like a very handy temporary solution. Still I'll see if I can learn to be a computer and read binary.

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This is Holden country, where on a quiet day you can hear the fords rusting.

I recently posted a long post about carby options and didnt try this carb, but cant really expect anything other than a significant improvement over std carbies, there is no rabbit being pulled out of the hat here. BUT it would not be too hard to be a HUGE improvement over the 350/320 or even a badly set up 465 or weber/holley 450 . The holden 6 is an enigma and cam shaft and heads are able to produce such huge requirements and differences in carbs. It really is horses for courses with holden 6's and carbs, but thanks for the input , it is a new chapter in my lifelong research .

Well done!!

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Just pi..marking this thread :-)

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"Junk is something you throw out 3 weeks before you need it"

iv got a torana with a 186 and i was just wondering if this modification was possible
cheers jake

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Definitely possible, i pulled a hj premier with a 202 and trimatic apart a few years back, it had a webber carby on it and was on gas, for some reason it went a lot better on gas than petrol which is saying something cos it had no problem spinning either way. The gas system was of the 'hat' type (as in a hat mounted in the air cleaner)
Cheers
Jess

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I have a weber adm 34 fitted to my blue 202

There are two connections on my carby

- one 12v to a solenoid

-the other to the heater element on the choke.
(+12v to heat up element to open choke)

This one is not connected at present

Engine cuts out as soon as voltage is applied to this bolt

so im running car with out choke, can anyone help with my dilemma?

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I spent my money on women , fast cars n parties,
the rest i just squandered.

Where are you getting the power from to run the idle solenoid and the choke?

Is the power to the choke and solenoid staying up at 12 volts when both devices are connected?

Assuming you have a good +12V feed, the only thing I can think of is that the carburettor is not earthed properly and connecting the choke is "pulling up" the potential of the carburettor body. This would reduce the potential difference across the idle solenoid and cause it to shut off.

Try running a good earth to the carburettor body and see if it fixes your problem.

Brett.

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Hey i have a 34 adm weber on my gemini as a blowthrough set up with a toyota S/C 14 supercharger and cant get it idle and when it does it idles at 2000rpm.
Do u know where all the pipes goes and where to earth it to for the solinded?
Any help would be great full
I dont have a chock set up on this carbie as has been set up for blow through.
There is a hose that is for the idle as well and where does that go or do u block it up?

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It is important that you provide a good earth to the body of the carburettor.

If you have connected the throttle nudger directly up to one of the vacuum ports it could cause it to idle high after the throttle has been opened.

Not sure how the forced induction would effect it though.

Look in Holdenpaedia for more information.

Brett.

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It worked by hooking a wire up to the idle solinded made it drop the revs. Have it now idleing at 1000 rpm very happy.
Thanks for your help. cheers

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LMH, could you possibly post more pics of the setup on your VK showing where all the hoses have been connected? I am about to do this conversion. Cheers, Stuart

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Where does the throttle position switch for the EST go on the weber or do i leave it off? I'd like to keep the EST running. Or should I chuck on a blue motor dizzy and hope the cops don't notice? Stuart

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"Junk is something you throw out 3 weeks before you need it"

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Please use, Holdenpaedia will get the first box on the left side. Post any suggestions.